Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Dystopia? I think this sets a new high for pro-urban bunk*. Barring parts of Detroit, no suburbs are anywhere near dystopia status right now, and that situation isn't likely to change much in the near future. Many suburbs are thriving, and the most prosperous places I've been to in the last year of traveling happen to be suburbs. I've seen densely-packed cities that are doing pretty well too, as well as suburbs that are rotting, but my point is that I notice absolutely no trend towards "suburbia-turned-dystopia".
I have noticed a strong trend towards rot, decay, and congestion with American roads, buildings, and other infrastructure which is a huge problem that isn't receiving the attention it deserves. This isn't a problem confined to the suburbs, though. If anything the cities are more rotted because the infrastructure there has had much more time to degrade than a suburb that was built 2 years ago. If the suburbs were all built 50 years ago and the downtowns were new the situation would be completely reversed. Obviously the trend towards decay can be reversed; as the Tappan Zee Bridge replacement project shows, we are still capable of building new and better bridges.
But I digress . Get back to the suburbia topic now.
*As opposed to all of the much better arguments that exist in favor of urbanity. There are good arguments to be made for the urban model, but "suburbs are our next dystopia" isn't one of them.
^^ Most of what you said is fair, but as far as suburbs being the most prosperous... I've seen different in my travels, it's been cities where ive seen a higher level of prosperity. Suburbs definitely have more balance amongst the middle class though currently.
^^ Most of what you said is fair, but as far as suburbs being the most prosperous... I've seen different in my travels, it's been cities where ive seen a higher level of prosperity. Suburbs definitely have more balance amongst the middle class though currently.
Marin, San Mateo, and Santa Clara counties all have higher median incomes than San Francisco county. Suburbs are generally more homogeneous which is why you have fairly large pockets where the median income is in excess of $200,000 in many suburbs but in no primary cities. Even Manhattan comes no where close to even half of that.
Marin, San Mateo, and Santa Clara counties all have higher median incomes than San Francisco county. Suburbs are generally more homogeneous which is why you have fairly large pockets where the median income is in excess of $200,000 in many suburbs but in no primary cities. Even Manhattan comes no where close to even half of that.
Manhattan varies greatly and it probably better to look at neighborhoods, census tracts/blocks or zip codes. Even in the area I live in, you can find census blocks within city limits that are higher than many suburban census blocks. So, there may be or is some crossover in that regard.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 06-02-2013 at 08:22 PM..
Manhattan is a bit skewed as it contains some rather impoverished neighborhoods in the upper 1/3 that have little in common with the rest of the island (what people usually think of when they hear Manhattan). The Manhattan "Core" or the mostly gentrified portion has a median income of $88k/year.
But wander east to Long Island and you'll find similar or higher median incomes: $95k/year for Nassau and $87k/year for Suffolk. But it might affected by what counts as a household. A couple of people in their late 20s living in Manhattan as roommates earning $70k/year each counts as separate households earning $70k/year, a married two income couple living on Long Island earning $110k/year combined counts as one household.
But Malloric picked medians. Per capita incomes would tell a different story, with Manhattan having by far the highest per capita income. Manhattan is extreme, but cities in general (well, at least somewhat gentrified ones) tend to have a broader income distribution than their suburbs.
I'm all for progressive urban planning, but frankly crap like this is why a lot of people think that urbanists need to...............well you can insert your own obscene euphamism.
It's so hyperbolic, snooty and needlessly contrarian. We're not the only people who like single family houses with lots, it's WORLDWIDE NOW/
The urban rennaisance is happening and will continue to strenghen, but single family homes and sprawl are NOT going to dissapear and if urbanists want to actually SPREAD their messages and get people ON BOARD, they have to stop spewing crap like this. SERIOUSLY.
Do you think the statement in bold is a bit hyperbolic?
Not in the least. The quiet desperation of people living in sprawl is as horrific a vision of a city as I've seen in any film depicting dystopic visions of the future.
It saddens me that so many in this country are resigned to live in such nightmarish circumstances. And it's positively frightening that not one of those terrible visions of urban decay depicted in the movies seems half as bad as life in a typical subdivision in Frisco or Katy Texas does today.
Not in the least. The quiet desperation of people living in sprawl is as horrific a vision of a city as I've seen in any film depicting dystopic visions of the future.
It saddens me that so many in this country are resigned to live in such nightmarish circumstances. And it's positively frightening that not one of those terrible visions of urban decay depicted in the movies seems half as bad as life in a typical subdivision in Frisco or Katy Texas does today.
Your descriptions of suburban living are based on nothing more than your wish for things to be the way you perceive them to be. You hate suburbs, so you describe them them in the worst possible way facts be damned. It doesn't sadden you to imagine people living in the "nightmarish" circumstances you believe exist in every suburb. It THRILLS you. After all, if the suburbs are as awful as you perceive, it validates your opinion that cities are the fabulous, clean, welcoming, caring, perfect nirvanas you also imagine. But, hey, don't let reality intrude on your fantasies.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Get back to the suburbia topic now.
