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not totally unwalkable sounds like a low bar, I was thinking maybe only high walkablity might make any difference. Is it common to do errands without a car in Phoenix?
I skimmed Phoneix on streetview, didn't see much. Perhaps you could show me a walkable neighborhood in Phoenix?
Although there are probably a bunch of walkable neighborhoods in Phoenix, it's a pretty poor example of a city for walkability (in comparison with the denser cities). Here are a few links:
Most of the studies you've mentioned, don't control for demographic differences between neighborhoods. More interesting is if the same groups of people are in walkable and non-walkable neighborhoods, what is the effect?
Socioeconomic differences between neighborhoods is one of the biggest variables. Your question in bold above is "the" question at hand IMO. The purpose of the discussion focusing on the impacts of walkability for all groups alike (e.g. rich, poor, etc.).
The best and worst public schools in the state of PA are in Philadelphia (Masterman and probably some school in North Philly, respectively).
Obviously somethings up and its not as simplistic as "urban = bad school, suburban = good school". It has to do with the students, and there's no reason very bright kids can't live in a city.
I think schools need space, so usually you see schools in suburban areas. Also, it costs alot of tax payer money to build schools and people with money (and kids) usually live in the burbs. Also, urban areas tend to be older, and I know some older schools are usually left to rot in a sense and a self-fullfiling prophecy of parents wanting kids in newer schools. Also, many older homes in downtown areas are usually not well-kept and thus have lower prices and allows low-income families to move in.
I think schools need space, so usually you see schools in suburban areas.
Like school yards, gyms, sports fields, etc? Urban schools have these facilities. Suburban schools usually have huge yards (not fields for football, actual yards) that are under-used. Why do we need so much space for schools?
Quote:
Originally Posted by the city
Also, it costs alot of tax payer money to build schools and people with money (and kids) usually live in the burbs. Also, urban areas tend to be older, and I know some older schools are usually left to rot in a sense and a self-fullfiling prophecy of parents wanting kids in newer schools.
They're only left to rot (not really an accurate term IMO) because the tax base left and there aren't enough people to get funding from. After generations of kids attending an under-funded school, a majority of the parents and students become indifferent and what funding is left is even more insuffient because students and parents don't make the effort. It has nothing to do with people wanting "newer schools", it has everything to do with caring parents wanting good schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the city
Also, many older homes in downtown areas are usually not well-kept and thus have lower prices and allows low-income families to move in.
I'm not sure why you mention this, but it depends on the neighborhood and the city.
Like school yards, gyms, sports fields, etc? Urban schools have these facilities. Suburban schools usually have huge yards (not fields for football, actual yards) that are under-used. Why do we need so much space for schools?
I had a conversation with someone who went to high school in Manhattan (actually mentioned earlier) and asked what it was like to go to school with no fields. I was curious since it seemed so different. Though I knew I number of people in undergrad who went to high school in a similar situation but it never occurred to me to ask (I think the urban planning forum made me more curious). Of course, since that was what she was used to, she didn't think there was anything unusual.
Also, I don't think I said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
Maybe in another decade middle and high schools will improve given the gentrification of urban neighborhoods and change in large-scale socioeconomic makeup....although according to nei's posts, even schools in Manhattan continue to suffer (not sure what the poverty rate is there).
I don't know details, but my impression is that while Manhattan public schools may not always be up to well-off suburban standards, they're mostly decent, especially elementary and middle schools. High schools are hard to measure because many have tests/admission standards (though I don't really understand how the system works exactly). A number of new ones opened are supposed to be very good. And the person in my example switched out of a bad Queens school to go to a decent Manhattan school. The bulk of the poverty is on the upper 1/3 of the island (Harlem and Washington Heights), though there are some poor elsewhere including a long stretch of high rise projects.
I had a conversation with someone who went to high school in Manhattan (actually mentioned earlier) and asked what it was like to go to school with no fields. I was curious since it seemed so different. Though I knew I number of people in undergrad who went to high school in a similar situation but it never occurred to me to ask (I think the urban planning forum made me more curious). Of course, since that was what she was used to, she didn't think there was anything unusual.
Also, I don't think I said this:
I don't know details, but my impression is that while Manhattan public schools may not always be up to well-off suburban standards, they're mostly decent, especially elementary and middle schools. High schools are hard to measure because many have tests/admission standards (though I don't really understand how the system works exactly). A number of new ones opened are supposed to be very good. And the person in my example switched out of a bad Queens school to go to a decent Manhattan school. The bulk of the poverty is on the upper 1/3 of the island (Harlem and Washington Heights), though there are some poor elsewhere including a long stretch of high rise projects.
I can't speak for everybody who went to schools in the city, but for me it was no big deal. We had to take a bus to a field in city park to practice and played all our football games at a stadium that was used from alot of the private, catholic, and public schools
I don't know details, but my impression is that while Manhattan public schools may not always be up to well-off suburban standards, they're mostly decent, especially elementary and middle schools. High schools are hard to measure because many have tests/admission standards (though I don't really understand how the system works exactly). A number of new ones opened are supposed to be very good. And the person in my example switched out of a bad Queens school to go to a decent Manhattan school. The bulk of the poverty is on the upper 1/3 of the island (Harlem and Washington Heights), though there are some poor elsewhere including a long stretch of high rise projects.
I'm struggling to find the post that I was meaning to refer to (I don't think it was in this thread). I may have been mistaken, sorry about that.
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From what I remember, there were plenty of spirited discussions before about this topic with Urban schools vs. Suburban schools, but this does show a different angle and new perspective.
There is plenty of excellent/good/decent quality schools that can be found in urban/bigger city areas, so I don’t know why some people continue to stigmatize/negatively stereotype urban schools so much.
For suburban areas mediocre/bland and kind of bad schools can still be found in those areas. However, I do realize it is usually easier to find a good school in suburban areas and with less research for finding those kind of schools for high school, middle school, and elementary school K-12.
For colleges/universities that is a completely different story and that is where urban/bigger city areas do better for this part of the education system, and where suburbs don’t do as well.
With deciding where to go for school with K-12 and college, a significant amount of that depends on the day to day lifestyle, and exact kind of neighborhood someone is looking for, and for certain various phases in their lives.
I thionk that fro what I have seen once people have school age children it perhaps become number one consideratio when picking a palce to live or buy.that applies even to choices i nsuburban areas. One only has to look at the moving and other forums that applies.
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