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My current employee in Pennsylvania is downsizing and offering a voluntary separation package that amounts to 4 weeks pay, in addition to a severance of 1 week pay per year worked. They specified that after the voluntary separation packages are implemented, involuntary separations will commence with a severance of 1 week pay per year worked. Essentially, we receive a 4 week “bonus” for volunteering to leave.
I have worked there 10 years. My weekly pay is about $1960. My separation amount would be $27,450 for voluntary and $19,600 for involuntary. I called the unemployment office to verify whether a voluntary separation package would disqualify me from receiving unemployment benefits. She indicated I had a 50/50 chance and that it was dependent on the examiner of my individual case. This is not very helpful, since receiving unemployment benefits with the involuntary layoff would be better financially than taking the voluntary with no unemployment benefits.
My specific questions are:
1. Should I wait for the involuntary layoffs to ensure I receive unemployment benefits?
2. What amount can I expect to receive for UC? I believe I would receive the full $573 for involuntary because it’s under the $20,797 threshold, but I am unsure how to calculate if I took the voluntary amount.
3. Any recommendation for when I should apply for UC?
The old rule and maybe still remants in PA with the severance is that you have to have some indication that your job won't be there.
From your story, the employer did announce downsizing, but what indication is there if you don't volunteer that you're going to get the involuntary severance?
This is our definitive thread, and even then, it's not clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby1417
1. Should I wait for the involuntary layoffs to ensure I receive unemployment benefits?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby1417
2. What amount can I expect to receive for UC? I believe I would receive the full $573 for involuntary because it’s under the $20,797 threshold, but I am unsure how to calculate if I took the voluntary amount.
You have to do really good math. Weekly benefit is driven by earnings. However, if you get too much UI money in a lump sum and wait to file, then the money can unbalance your quarters and you get nothing.
Send Dupontcoalkracker a DM and get help with the numbers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby1417
3. Any recommendation for when I should apply for UC?
If the severance is so large to offset benefits, you apply in such away that the offset will still leave you 27 weeks on the backend before your claim expires to collect your full UI balance (1 waiting week and 26 paid weeks).
From your numbers, I don't think your severance is large enough to cause a sufficient number of weeks to offset that you don't need to care.
My specific department and project that I work on is included in the areas that are downsizing (which I have in writing), but I have not been specifically told that I will be included in the layoffs. The paperwork I have also states that the voluntary separation offer will be followed by an involuntary layoff. Only targeted employees are being offered the voluntary separation package, me being one of them. Even if I do get some sort of verbal indication that I would be laid off, I doubt very much that I would be able to get anything in writing.
I actually read through the link you provided earlier today and even took some screen shots so I’ll know how to file when it’s time to do so!
As for the payouts, I get paid monthly. My severance will continue in the same manner. My quarter earnings should be consistent. I’ll send Dupontcoalkracker a DM.
After the PA Supreme Court decision in Diehl (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-supre...t/1619442.html) you are under no obligation to wait for involuntary layoffs. You may get a bad decision from a UC Examiner and be forced to request an appeal hearing.
Based on your gross severance amount and your stated weekly gross wages, you would be looking at 4-5 week severance delay before you would be eligible to receive benefits. Nothing to be gained by waiting to open your claim in that scenario. If your last day of work is a Friday, meaning you worked your normal work week, you open the claim any day the following week Sunday through Saturday and your application date will be backdated to that Sunday. If you work less than your normal full time work week, say for example you usually work M-F and your last day of work is a Tuesday, you would open the claim prior to Saturday of that week. Even though you worked, your earnings might be under the threshold for that week to be counted as your unpaid "waiting week".
After the PA Supreme Court decision in Diehl (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-supre...t/1619442.html) you are under no obligation to wait for involuntary layoffs. You may get a bad decision from a UC Examiner and be forced to request an appeal hearing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS987
Even with the copy of the Supreme Court ruling on Diehl, you still have to prove that you felt your job was in jeopardy.
Because the guy said this, I was so afraid tell this person that it was going to be a slam dunk. Have things become more predictable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DupontCoalKracker
If your last day of work is a Friday, meaning you worked your normal work week, you open the claim any day the following week Sunday through Saturday and your application date will be backdated to that Sunday.
I tell people to file on Friday anyway especially if the Friday is at the tailend of a quarter and Sunday is the start of a new quarter. I do that so that there is no risk of wages aging away because they waited three days. Does this not work in PA? I know that the "first" week will be excess earnings, but the second week should be the waiting, and the third starts benefits, but then the claimant is left with nearly six months of unused wages for a 2nd-year claim IF they can make it work for themselves.
Examiner determinations have been pretty consistent on voluntary layoffs with severance. It seems to be less consistent for early retirement incentive voluntary layoffs especially when the claimant comes out of the gate stating "Retirement" as the reason they are no longer working.
The file on on Friday or Saturday technique could certainly be used if waiting until Sunday would be a quarter change. The first bi-weekly filing would result in no benefits payable, but preserve a quarter of earnings for someone with a consistent work history.
Thank Dupont. I was hesitant. Dupont knows PA better than I can hope to. I know just the highest level, and must defer. I just didn't want you to jump the gun, and Dupont cleared everything up.
Hold on to any documentation like emails or memos concerning the downsizing and the employer approaching you with the voluntary separation package. Open the claim online so you eliminate the possibility of a UC Interviewer starting a fishing expedition and you saying anything that can be twisted around to hurt you later. On the web application the reason you are no longer working is either "lack of work" or "downsizing" and not "Other" or anything else to trigger questionnaires being mailed. The application will ask if you are or will be receiving severance or lump sum payment, you will answer yes and that's will generate a follow up question asking if the gross amount of the severance will be greater than $20,800. Answer yes, and that will trigger a severance questionnaire to be sent to you and the employer. Complete it and mail or fax it back so the Examiner can complete the severance delay Determination. For the 4-5 weeks you will not be eligible you can either let claim sit and go dormant and reopen it online based on the date on the severance Determination or you can go on and file biweekly to keep the claim in active status even though you aren't being paid.
Report payouts of unused vacation time when filing your bi-weekly claim and answering questions about the week in which you received it. Do not report any final payroll you receive after your last day of work as earnings for that week. You didn't earn that money in that week, you earned it prior to your separation, but payroll is always 2-4 weeks behind.
Distributions from retirement plans maintained by the separating employer can cause reductions in your UC benefit amount. There is ways around that if that is something you planned on doing.
I am in the same boat, but I was told that my position was eliminated and could choose either the voluntary or involuntary (I have emails to support this). I chose voluntary to get the extra 4 wks.
I also would receive a severance penalty of 4-5 wks.
My question is when I should file. This Sunday or after the 5 weeks penalty?
I was not sure what was meant by "For the 4-5 weeks you will not be eligible you can either let claim sit and go dormant and reopen it online based on the date on the severance Determination or you can go on and file biweekly to keep the claim in active status even though you aren't being paid". Or what Chyvan meant by "you apply in such away that the offset will still leave you 27 weeks on the backend before your claim expires to collect your full UI balance (1 waiting week and 26 paid weeks)."
In Pa we must keep a detailed log of work search activities, subject to audit, and other requirements. I would prefer not to have to do this for weeks that I am not actually collecting unemployment compensation, due to the severance offset.
Should I apply this Sunday or after the severance offset, or there abouts.
If I file this Sunday, would I submit for benefits every 2 weeks to keep it active? Even though I would not get anything?
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