NY Labor is making me pay $2000 for lying about a job offer (receive, claim)

[deepindeed]

I was unemployed from May to October and received benefits from NY Labor in NYC. A former employer from 2015 wrote me an email in September, with the subject: "Unemployment Opportunity" saying "Hi_____, I see that you are requesting Unemployment. I just wanted to reach out to let you know that we do have an open position at baba cool, if you are interested. Thanks"

Just a few days earlier, NY Labor determined I was disqualified for benefits and to be penalized with a fee and pay back unemployment from September and October. $2000

Their determination: You are disqualified under section 593.2 because you refused a suitable offer and made a false statement to obtain benefits from us.

Reason: You refused a suitable offer of employment from ____ as a barista making $9.00/hr. Your explanation that the email you received was not a bona fide offer is not compelling because your failure to respond prevented the employer from providing further information about the offer and constitutes as a refusal.

--

Please, please help me understand how the email I copied and pasted above is an OFFER of employment?!

-There was no 'offer'.
-I did not accept, refuse or respond regarding this offer.
-NY Labor expects me to be solicited to an actual job offer via email WITHOUT my having a formal meeting? An interview, a discussion about position, salary, hours, ANYTHING at all?

The amount of spam I receive in my inbox and fake offers I receive from people, and NY Labor just expects me to notify them of an apparent offer like this? How on earth did this constitute as an offer? I have a job in my field now that's twice the pay rate as this horrible one I previously worked for!

Someone please tell me there is something I can argue?

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by deepindeed

Someone please tell me there is something I can argue?

If you're still within the appeal time frame, you submit an appeal request. "The determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled."

You should have come here first. That email thing you came up with wasn't the right argument.

The correct one is that you moved beyond being a barista, and it was NOT suitable employment, or it was too far and you moved away and it wasn't practical to commute, or tell us everything wrong with the job, and we'll think of something, and you can try again.

Mind you, you got the email, you told DOL you got the email. You messed up.

Also, if you are getting UI in the future, all former employers can call you back to work. If you don't ever want to work for them again or have them complicate your UI, you get new phone numbers, addresses, and emails, and disappear.

[deepindeed]

I will submit an appeal, but this is unnerving that after reading the handbook and section 593.2 there is nothing in any of these about what constitutes as an offer (in their absurd minds), but instead the actual definition of a job offer being: after an interview, after discussion of salary, benefits, hours, position even...

And, in my argument, I let them know, even if this was an offer, I have a masters degree in a technical field and just accepted a position twice the pay rate because I was interviewing for several positions at this time, $140k in school loans, not in my field, worked there for two months because couldn't sustain living in NYC on that wage. I said all of these things in my follow up before the determination.

I'm supposed to lie now that I didn't receive this email? I'm being made out to be a criminal by them for apparently lying to them that I was offered anything, when I didn't even consider this an opportunity, it states "if you are interested" and "employment opportunity".

Not only this, but the weekly rate of pay is less than my benefit rate: I still have my old work schedules. Who can survive on $9.00/hr 25-hours per week. I quit after 2 months of work there.

Refusal of part-time employment (18 hours) spread over a four-day period in a statutory week is with good cause when claimant's earnings for such work is less than the benefit rate to which he is entitled for a full statutory week of unemployment. (Matter of Scranton, 12 N.Y. 2d 983; 14 AD 2d 953, aff'g. A.B. 79,057-61; A-750-1541)

Refusal of part-time employment on five days a week is with good cause if claimant's pay would be less than his benefit rate. (A.B. 78,691-61; A-750-1557)​

"Offer of employment" There must be an unconditional offer of a specified job starting on a definite date.
No. There was none.
"Refuses to accept an offer" A claimant may not be disqualified for refusal of employment unless (s)he has actually refused to accept the job offer.
Didn't respond​, accept or refuse​ regarding this ​​apparent ​'​offer​'​.

Can't I argue these points in my favor?

[Chyvan]

Yes, you can argue those things, but the problem is that you did NOT get information about the job.

Now, you want to say that it was unsuitable for a bunch of reasons that you had no knowledge of. However, you can certainly say you're not a barista anymore because that was in the "offer" so you knew that. Pay is not a suitability issue for NY. However, that email said nothing about part-time. You can't refuse work for something you didn't know about or had no knowledge of because you didn't ask.

Also, it won't be the job that you just got that works for you, but the ones that you've had since you quit working at this former employer that shows that you're NOT that occupation anymore.

Originally Posted by deepindeed

I'm supposed to lie now that I didn't receive this email? I'm being made out to be a criminal by them for apparently lying to them that I was offered anything, when I didn't even consider this an opportunity, it states "if you are interested" and "employment opportunity".

Instead, the decision was that you did NOT respond to the offer. I know it's NOT an offer, but when you "preclude," this is what happens. I'm also sure that you didn't report the email to the DOL on the weekly claim form, but the employer that is footing part of your UI payments did.

[Rabrrita]

Don't lose sight of the PRIZE!

You can come up with thousands of reasons to fight this, but you need only that one that will get it tossed. What was the last job you held before being unemployed? If that position was more inline with your education and experience, and, more inline with your current position, you have a much better chance that email can be viewed as not even suitable to take time in responding. Unfortunately, not responding to a former employer can cause a lot of hurt.

But, what you did, are doing and as important, what you said back to unemployment, will make or break this.

[deepindeed]

Rabrrita,

my previous position (where I was laid off) was in my field. That's why I left this cafe (that's firing back at me) after merely 2 months of working there.

My salary in my lay-off job was double the cafe, in my field, had benefits, full time, I know none of this matters after reading 593.2 because UI cares nothing about you/me personally, and just that I apparently lied about a so-called job offer.

But, I said I didn't respond regarding her email on a job opportunity (neither responded regarded the subject, nor accepted, nor refused) but instead responded letting her know I'll call UI to ask why I'm receiving benefits from her, and not my most recent employer. She said "okay, thanks" and then I realized that UI compiles all previous employment to calculate benefits.

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by deepindeed

My salary in my lay-off job was double the cafe,

NY doesn't care about salary. However, if you worked at McDonald's while putting yourself through med school, they do not make you take a job at McDonalds again when you finish and become a doctor.

You have to learn to tell your story right, or you're going to hang yourself.

You must focus on the decision as written. It says that you ignored the email. That means that your basis to make the job unsuitable must come only from the email. You don't get to guess thinking you knew what all you were being offered.

[Rabrrita]

Originally Posted by deepindeed

But, I said I didn't respond regarding her email on a job opportunity (neither responded regarded the subject, nor accepted, nor refused) but instead responded letting her know I'll call UI to ask why I'm receiving benefits from her, and not my most recent employer. She said "okay, thanks" and then I realized that UI compiles all previous employment to calculate benefits.

PLEASE don't tell me you actually went and contacted the former employer after receiving their employment opportunity email asking why they are paying your unemployment benefits and NEVER asked about the employment opportunity! Tell us that did not happen!!!!! Please tell us we got it wrong.......

[deepindeed]

Oh my god, what on earth is the problem now? Yes. I responded to her email, letting her know I wasn't trying to request unemployment from her, but another company, and would call NY labor to resolve. She said thanks.

I was in the midst of truthfully applying and interviewing for many positions and it slipped my mind that NY labor compiles previous employment to equate my benefits.

--
And, so regarding her email, how can I make a case for this one-line email?

[Chyvan]

For about the third time - YOU HAVE MOVED BEYOND BEING A BARISTA.