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No, it just might mean the questions are a bit vague and a touch nonsensical. Like these two "What is Tulsa doing to compete with other regional cities, such as OKC, Wichita, Kansas City, St Louis and Dallas? What is Tulsa's identity and what does it want to become?"
Why does Tulsa need to compete with other regional cities? Chances are Dallas, St Louis, and KC are not competitive cities. They are larger, have more money, and have more selections. They also have more really nice places and more really bad places. If Tulsa were closer Tulsa would be a suburb to any of them. You really think people in Tulsa stay up at night trying to think of ways to be competitive with those cities?
While both Wichita and OKC are more similar in size, I doubt anyone says we need to do something because OKC did it.
What makes you think Tulsa is trying to "become" something. Tulsa is already something.......and its a pretty good something. If I wanted to live in Wichita, OKC, KS, St Louis, or Dallas I would be there. I don't so I'm not.
Cities are always trying to better themselves and attract new companies. Typically they have master plans and don't fly by the seats of their pants. Obviously Tulsa sees the need for improvements and wants to "become" something or they wouldn't allow any new construction in the city, they wouldn't build a downtown arena. Downtown revitalization and urban renewal are common in many larger cities. Think outside the box a little bit and try to acknowledge the need for a little progressive thinking. It's fun when you do.
What you call "progressive" I call "keeping up with the Jones." I can see you now in an urban planning meeting "Lets do what everyone else is doing" and you actually thinking that that is thinking "out of the box." Downtown revitalization and urban renewal is NOT progressive thinking, but, for the most part, an effort to eliminate urban blight created by suburbanization of the down town core. I strongly suggest you spend a little more time trying to understand the dynamics of urban development before you start demanding some sort of faux progression disguising a rehash of other cities old hash. I do not want a city where we have interchangeable parts with other cities. I LIKE the Asian district in OKC. I have no problem going there to shop. I prefer the Blue Dome district and Cherry Street to Bricktown.......I don't want to emulate them. I would miss the stockyards in bot OKC and Ft Worth but I don't want to duplicate them in Tulsa. Tulsa HAS a unique and special ambiance and culture. I certainly would not like it if we lost that in search of some sort of competitive edge over OKC or Wichita.
And I sure as hell don't want to live in or near another Dallas or St Louis or KC.
These “which city has a bigger one” threads are so much fun. Yay. Tulsa is a very nice city that really isn’t in need of some wholesale remake. There certainly is no desire to be anything like Oklahoma City or Wichita. Would Tulsa like this or that individual company or amenity that currently exists in those cities? Maybe, but that’s it. Tulsa is a much better place than St Louis, or Dallas (Ft Worth might be debatable, but not Dallas) Tulsa is somewhat similar to Kansas City but KC twice the size and has huge issues of its own, bigger than Tulsa’s. The remake of Kansas City’s downtown with the Sprint Center and Power and Light is lame, plastic and forced compared to what has happened in Tulsa. And now P&L seems to be starting to fail. I’ve heard before and I think there’s a lot of truth to this, “Oklahoma City wants to be San Antonio or Dallas when it grows up. Tulsa wants to be Boston.” Tulsa does not aspire to be anything like any of the cities you listed.
What Tulsa needs are more high wage jobs (just like every city in the whole country), better support from the state, a higher rate of growth and more infill development especially downtown. Downtown has been the part of Tulsa that has been the most neglected over recent decades but that has already changed. Today there’s something like $350 million in projects going on downtown and the total over the last 5-6 years has to be something like $750 million. There’s the arena, the new ballpark, expansion of OSU Tulsa, expanded convention center, multiple new hotels, art centers, housing projects, office projects, there’s a 17 story tower office going up now, dozens of new bars and restaurants. Downtown has been remade, and there’s even more change coming. Even after all the change the city will still keep being Tulsa.
These “which city has a bigger one” threads are so much fun. Yay. Tulsa is a very nice city that really isn’t in need of some wholesale remake. There certainly is no desire to be anything like Oklahoma City or Wichita. Would Tulsa like this or that individual company or amenity that currently exists in those cities? Maybe, but that’s it. Tulsa is a much better place than St Louis, or Dallas (Ft Worth might be debatable, but not Dallas) Tulsa is somewhat similar to Kansas City but KC twice the size and has huge issues of its own, bigger than Tulsa’s. The remake of Kansas City’s downtown with the Sprint Center and Power and Light is lame, plastic and forced compared to what has happened in Tulsa. And now P&L seems to be starting to fail. I’ve heard before and I think there’s a lot of truth to this, “Oklahoma City wants to be San Antonio or Dallas when it grows up. Tulsa wants to be Boston.” Tulsa does not aspire to be anything like any of the cities you listed.
What Tulsa needs are more high wage jobs (just like every city in the whole country), better support from the state, a higher rate of growth and more infill development especially downtown. Downtown has been the part of Tulsa that has been the most neglected over recent decades but that has already changed. Today there’s something like $350 million in projects going on downtown and the total over the last 5-6 years has to be something like $750 million. There’s the arena, the new ballpark, expansion of OSU Tulsa, expanded convention center, multiple new hotels, art centers, housing projects, office projects, there’s a 17 story tower office going up now, dozens of new bars and restaurants. Downtown has been remade, and there’s even more change coming. Even after all the change the city will still keep being Tulsa.
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Tulsa wants to be Boston
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There is a problem with this notion....uh, Tulsa still is Tulsa at the end of the day, residing in Oklahoma. Having lived in New England myself, I can honestly say "Praise God!" Tulsa is nothing like Boston.
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Even after all the change the city will still keep being Tulsa.
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There is a problem with this notion....uh, Tulsa still is Tulsa at the end of the day, residing in Oklahoma. Having lived in New England myself, I can honestly say "Praise God!" Tulsa is nothing like Boston.
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Even after all the change the city will still keep being Tulsa.
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Amen to that.
Tulsa is a nice city, a good place to live that obviously has very little in common with Boston. Tulsa is easily a better city than Oklahoma City or Wichita, which is why this is kind of a dumb thread. The only people that would think those cities are better are people that have to live in those cities. But Boston is very easily a better city than Tulsa, it's not close.
What do you find wrong with Boston? It's one of America's and really the world's best cities. It's a great place to visit and if you can take the crowds and traffic (and can afford it) it would be a great place to live. You must also hate New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Washington.
There is a problem with this notion....uh, Tulsa still is Tulsa at the end of the day, residing in Oklahoma. Having lived in New England myself, I can honestly say "Praise God!" Tulsa is nothing like Boston.
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Even after all the change the city will still keep being Tulsa.
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Amen to that.
You must have lived in the crowded part of New England. I prefer the more rural northern parts of the region.
Tulsa is a nice city, a good place to live that obviously has very little in common with Boston. Tulsa is easily a better city than Oklahoma City or Wichita, which is why this is kind of a dumb thread. The only people that would think those cities are better are people that have to live in those cities. But Boston is very easily a better city than Tulsa, it's not close.
What do you find wrong with Boston? It's one of America's and really the world's best cities. It's a great place to visit and if you can take the crowds and traffic (and can afford it) it would be a great place to live. You must also hate New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Washington.
First of all, I don't hate any city. I really (really, really) dislike Austin, but only because it has a football team that worships the Devil. The people are kinda cool....semi-Okieish even.
As per your question regarding Boston, the city was delightful, tons to do and see. The history was fascinating to me. As for some of the folks, I found the people to be very racially insensitive. (I'm not African American but Native American/Anglo. Some were insensitive enough to ask if I lived in a tee-pee [no] back in Oklahoma and/or ride a horse [yes]). No lie, I heard the "N" word more in Boston than I did growing up in the Dustbowl South of Oklahoma. Go figure. There were a ton of entrenched phobias, especially towards Southerners....and yes, New Englanders consider Texas/Oklahoma part of the South and thus they have many ill-conceived stereotypes towards people from Southern states. Ridiculous bigotry.
Although I lived there for a bit, I wouldn't put down roots there again. It is a fun place to visit though. And the outlying areas of the cities were just beautiful with thick woods.
Oklahoma's strength = the goodness and quality of the people. I'd put 'em up against anybody and that's why I live here.
Ok well I think the point if my thread was missed. Maybe I explained if poorly. I think all cities are trying to improve themselves. It's likely that when trying to lure better jobs to tulsa they compete with cities with this region of the country. I realize that because one city builds a new theater that most city planners don't freak out and feel the need to copy each move. However okcs maps project was fueled by a mayor that lost out on bringing jobs to okc. They mayor was told by the company owner that they chose indy because no one wants to live in okc. My point of this thread is not how tulsa can copy other cities but what is tulsa doing to become a better city to continue to attract high paying jobs and experience healthy economic growth.
Knrstz, I see what you are saying. I think its important to make the distinction between OKC and Tulsa.
When MAPs was passed, OKC was a truly awful place, I hate to say. I remember coming here as a kid in 1994 and thinking ,"Wow, what a dirty, depressing city." The turnaround of course has been nothing short of miraculous, but OKC pretty much had to start from the bottom. On its worst day, Tulsa has been no worse than "okay." So in effect I think its hard to duplicate what has happened in OKC with Tulsa. As its been stated before, Tulsa should just be Tulsa.
Now how would Tulsa make itself better? That's a bit of a vague question. Better for what? Jobs? Quality of Life? Education? I noticed another poster said the Tulsa was "easily better" than OKC. Well if you are talking about varied topography or aesthetics you could make an argument. Then again OKC IMO has a better economy and, as of now, better long term growth prospects. But I also know people who actually disliked OKC for this reason ("its growing too fast for me"). I've been to Boston and personally hated it, largely for the reasons Bass&Catfish outlined. But lots of people love the culture and urban vibe.
For Tulsa to really thrive, it should focus on its strengths and understand that it can't be all things to all people. Personally I would love if they boosted their already strong art and music scene. What ever happened to DFest? Bring stuff like that back. Also, before Williams and MCI careened into Chapter 11 post 9/11, Tulsa was developing a small but vibrant high tech sector. There really isn't one in Oklahoma, so Tulsa would have that all to itself.
Last edited by #1soonerfan; 05-11-2012 at 08:52 PM..
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The people are kinda cool....semi-Okieish even.
back in Oklahoma and/or ride a horse [yes]). No lie, I heard the "N" word
more in Boston than I did growing up in the Dustbowl South of Oklahoma. Go figure.
