Why is West Toledo always considered the only nice area? (Oregon: vacation home, safe area)

[ferraris]

I feel like the general rule of thumb for living in the city itself is to stay in West Toledo. Why is this? I think some other areas of the city get jipped by this advice and that it is just given out because it is simple. In my mind the nicest area of the city is the neighborhood running along River Road in South Toledo. Just because South Toledo also includes the Old South End doesn't mean that areas like Harvard Terrace, Beverly, Heatherdowns and Crossgates should be ignored.

I'm not too familiar with the North side, but isn't Point Place a nice area? Then there's the Old West End and downtown itself, too. I have no problem recommending the west side of the city, but it is far from being the only safe area.

[Tobias C]

Good call.

I think people just say West Toledo is the only good place because its the easiest thing to tell someone (especially someone whos unfamiliar with the area and isnt likely to learn all of the areas on a personal level anytime soon.)

Most of South Toledo is pretty safe and decent honestly, the Old South End being the exception. Some areas as you mentioned are great.


East Toledo is kinda rough, most people know that. Some areas of the East Side closer to the Oregon border arent too bad though.


As far as North Toledo goes, it just depends on what you consider North Toledo. The Lagrange area is pretty rough. So are the Vistula and Northriver areas. So I definitely cant suggest those areas to anyone, except the most pioneering of new residents <--- (note to you rare people, these areas are treasures just waiting to be taking advantage of). Point Place is the exception. Point Place and the surrounding neighborhood around the Ottawa River off Shoreland Ave is all pretty decent. Some of its even really nice. Point Place, to me, almost feels like a completely separate town.

[SonnyDaze]

Originally Posted by Tobias C

Good call.

I think people just say West Toledo is the only good place because its the easiest thing to tell someone (especially someone whos unfamiliar with the area and isnt likely to learn all of the areas on a personal level anytime soon.)

Most of South Toledo is pretty safe and decent honestly, the Old South End being the exception. Some areas as you mentioned are great.


East Toledo is kinda rough, most people know that. Some areas of the East Side closer to the Oregon border arent too bad though.


As far as North Toledo goes, it just depends on what you consider North Toledo. The Lagrange area is pretty rough. So are the Vistula and Northriver areas. So I definitely cant suggest those areas to anyone, except the most pioneering of new residents <--- (note to you rare people, these areas are treasures just waiting to be taking advantage of). Point Place is the exception. Point Place and the surrounding neighborhood around the Ottawa River off Shoreland Ave is all pretty decent. Some of its even really nice. Point Place, to me, almost feels like a completely separate town.

I wonder what percentage of children in Point Place go on to attend Woodward- the zoned high school, and arguably 2nd worst of the major TPS high schools.

[acealive1]

im gonna say it like i KNOW IT.

i grew up in north toledo. BAD AREA.


i lived in maumee close to the trail. the trail by western and erie and stanton and all those streets are BAD til u get to maumee or past glendale.

off reynolds by the turn pike is actually decent.


east side is terrible til u get to navarre on oregon.


our house in north toledo was targeted for break in at least three times and they got in once. stole our car once, tried another time. if u dont have a gun over there, get one.

[ryansmith]

It seems to be a common generalization, but West Toledo certainly doesn't have a monopoly on "safety" or desirability. I live in South Toledo and you wont find housing like much of River Road until you get into Ottawa Hills. I would say that things are changing in yet another generalization "The Old South End" or as natives call it the "South End" to be contrasted with "South Toledo." There is a movement amongst the people living between the zoo and the viaduct to change the name of that stretch of Broadway because of the stigma of that name, when in reality that neighborhood has gone from night and day in the last 5-10 years. Even in the heart of the South End, there are signs of change. The City has torn down many of the blighted properties and I see more and more people out and about that feel safe on the street, even at night. I am guessing the gangs have noticed the changes and thats why they are on a real spray painting spree in that neighborhood.

On Point Place: There are some areas of Point Place that transcend the stereotypes, but, especially when you get closer to the end of the peninsula (where the Toledo Beach used to be prior to the levy.), you will find smaller and smaller cottages. These used to be vacation homes for the well-off before the proliferation of air conditioning. Now many of them are in decay and used as permanent dwellings. Of course, any water front property tends to do much better. In the future, I would look for a lot of changes in Point Place. The big turning point would be public water front... so that people that own property inland can walk to the water... otherwise they just have a shack with views of other shacks.

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

I feel like the general rule of thumb for living in the city itself is to stay in West Toledo. Why is this? I think some other areas of the city get jipped by this advice and that it is just given out because it is simple. In my mind the nicest area of the city is the neighborhood running along River Road in South Toledo. Just because South Toledo also includes the Old South End doesn't mean that areas like Harvard Terrace, Beverly, Heatherdowns and Crossgates should be ignored.

I'm not too familiar with the North side, but isn't Point Place a nice area? Then there's the Old West End and downtown itself, too. I have no problem recommending the west side of the city, but it is far from being the only safe area.

[ferraris]

I agree that many people give the advice because it is easy to give out, and people like a clean cut rule of thumb. It's just irritating because it really isn't that clean cut of an issue; it's not like all of Toledo's nice neighborhoods are in West Toledo with just 1 or 2 exceptions. There are a lot of neighborhoods that get excluded when using that rule of thumb, including some of the nicest ones Toledo has to offer.

My other issue with it is just how many people take it at face value. If I tell someone from the suburbs that I grew up in South Toledo some of them will instantly think that I grew up in a ghetto, roughing it out in knife fights on the street.

Ryan, I grew up in South Toledo/South End/South side, whatever you want to call it. I've always used the terms interchangeably, and always use the full term "old south end" when talking about that neighborhood. I do agree with you that the Old South End really isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Its bark is worse than its bite. Outside of the immediate downtown area I think the Old South End and parts of the East Side are the only areas in Toledo with the bones to become walkable urban areas. They have denser housing than much of the city, and still have stretches of buildings that would work well as a business district. Realistically, the Old South End is fairly walkable even today, it just lacks the upscale or hip factor that it needs to attract people.

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

...Outside of the immediate downtown area I think the Old South End and parts of the East Side are the only areas in Toledo with the bones to become walkable urban areas. They have denser housing than much of the city, and still have stretches of buildings that would work well as a business district. Realistically, the Old South End is fairly walkable even today, it just lacks the upscale or hip factor that it needs to attract people.

I think theres plenty of other areas that have potential for walkability, albeit not as well as the Old South End or East Side. I think the Vistula, Northriver, and Lagrange areas could become decently walkable neighborhoods. Im sure they were back in the day. I could also see the Five Points area becoming fairly walkable with some revitalization. I think all of these areas have the "bones" so to speak, and where theres empty lots, theres opportunities for new development, as long as it suits the neighborhood.

I dont anticipate it happening but I think the whole Westgate area could be basically redone to be a great walkable area.

I also think theres a lot of potential for redevelopment along Monroe St and Sylvania Ave. Even if you didnt want to call these areas super walkable, breathing life back into these business corridors would increase the livability of the already decent neighborhoods around them.

[ryansmith]

I think the neighborhood (Old South End, South End, whatever) should band together and market the neighborhood perhaps more towards its historical name "The Darby," which refers to the Immaculate Conception Church? and the area around it... though I can see how such a move would be controversial because such a designation might seem to favor Irish and/or the Catholic heritage.

I have always been excited about Vistuala because of its proximity to downtown and its Italianate architecture (granted, much of it is in disrepair in recent decades.)

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by ryansmith

I think the neighborhood (Old South End, South End, whatever) should band together and market the neighborhood perhaps more towards its historical name "The Darby," which refers to the Immaculate Conception Church? and the area around it... though I can see how such a move would be controversial because such a designation might seem to favor Irish and/or the Catholic heritage.

I have always been excited about Vistuala because of its proximity to downtown and its Italianate architecture (granted, much of it is in disrepair in recent decades.)

A re-marketing campaign might succeed, but it would definitely see some backlash by people who view it as racist. Even if it was a totally non-ethnic term, if you got enough people using the term, along with enough development, it would be given all of the negative attributes of gentrification. Another obstacle is that the new neighborhood might only include a small area, leaving the rest of the Old South End behind. Given the relative success of the Old West End, I think that the Old South End might be able to build off of that brand.

There are also some community groups marketing it as a Latino neighborhood. That could also put a damper on "The Darby"

I think a big obstacle for the neighborhood might be its size. On top of that it is cut up pretty well by The Trail, at an intersection that is not at all conductive to anything but cars. Here's a rough sketch I made in google maps showing the boundaries of what I'd consider to be the "Old South End" As you can see, it's pretty large, and there are a lot of smaller neighborhoods within the neighborhood. On one hand that means it's easier for one section to take off, but it's also easier for a section to get left behind.

[Tobias C]

Maybe since its such a big area, perhaps part of the Old South End could be a Latino/Hispanic district, with other areas available for other neighborhood identities.