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Given that Dallas has no problem with demolishing what is old for the new, it is very surprising that those areas survived. Looking back it now, I am sure the city is glad that it didn't teardown or push to teardown those areas (urban renewal type of thing).
What I like about planning is that they're able to build entire urban walkable neighborhood off a single old streetcar node or old commercial district. The zoning, complete streets, and other infrastructure upgrades all help areas with urban bones enhance further. That's why I talk about it a lot.
This was Lower Greenville in 2006 before this recent wave of revitalization. The lot they're standing on is the site of the Arcadia Theater, which burned down around that time. It was in the process of being restored. Trader Joe's is there now. To me, Greenville use to be a lot more gritty (not in a bad way though). Now, they've completed the renovation/restoration of all the buildings.
Now - This is from Aug 2023. The heat may be putting a damper on activity but there are still a few people walking the streets or this could've been taken during non-peak hours. The trees planted during the complete streets redo really helps to shade the sidewalk. Trader Joe's (former Arcadia Theater site), to the left (at 1:00) at the intersection of Sears St and Greenville Ave.
I think it's also good to point out that these older urban neighborhoods are all in that 40 sq mi area of Dallas that was built before WW2. Jefferson Blvd, Bishop Arts, Knox St, Lower Greenville, etc are the original urban nodes or streetcar main streets for those neighborhoods. As of now, they are at least 100 years old. They were connected by streetcars to Downtown and were "mini-downtowns" for their area, with Downtown Dallas being the major CBD for the entire city. Dallas peaked at a population density of 7,375 per sq mi in 1940, after having expanded to 40 square miles and a population of 295,000. At the time, Fortune Magazine called Dallas “a mini-Manhattan”.
What a man said in the 1920s about Lower Greenville
I feel like that's what the city is slowly reverting towards. Especially, areas that are within Loop 12. Slowly but surely....
They're talking about reuniting Lower Greenville back to Downtown by streetcar and extending the Dallas Streetcar at Bishop Arts onto Jefferson and Davis. Also, For years they've talked about extending the McKinney Ave Trolley in Uptown to Knox too. It makes sense since those are growing urban neighborhoods with existing density.
Jefferson Blvd and Bishop Ave in the 1940s. The taller building is the 1920s art deco-style Jefferson Tower - notice the streetcar tracks in the road and the streetcar itself further down the road
SOURCE: Flashback Dallas
Knox St in 1949 - streetcar tracks can be seen through the snow
SOURCE: Flashback Dallas
I hate when I forget to mention something, so excuse me if I’m posting too much. I heard an urban planner for the City of Dallas describe Dallas as a rust belt city surrounded by a suburban city (city proper). He was referring to the original 40 sq mi city (built before WW2) including the remaining historical neighborhoods/old streetcar nodes and the purely car dependent/suburban designed section surrounding it. I felt that way already, but I didn’t know how to put it. There are some parts of that 40 sq mi area that have been modified but areas that haven’t, I think most people notice it. Streets are narrower generally and you see a lot more buildings to the sidewalk. Even if they’re not in the best condition at the moment.
Given that Dallas has no problem with demolishing what is old for the new, it is very surprising that those areas survived. Looking back it now, I am sure the city is glad that it didn't teardown or push to teardown those areas (urban renewal type of thing).
What I like about planning is that they're able to build entire urban walkable neighborhood off a single old streetcar node or old commercial district. The zoning, complete streets, and other infrastructure upgrades all help areas with urban bones enhance further. That's why I talk about it a lot.
This was Lower Greenville in 2006 before this recent wave of revitalization. The lot they're standing on is the site of the Arcadia Theater, which burned down around that time. It was in the process of being restored. Trader Joe's is there now. To me, Greenville use to be a lot more gritty (not in a bad way though). Now, they've completed the renovation/restoration of all the buildings.
Now - This is from Aug 2023. The heat may be putting a damper on activity but there are still a few people walking the streets or this could've been taken during non-peak hours. The trees planted during the complete streets redo really helps to shade the sidewalk. Trader Joe's (former Arcadia Theater site), to the left (at 1:00) at the intersection of Sears St and Greenville Ave.
I think it's also good to point out that these older urban neighborhoods are all in that 40 sq mi area of Dallas that was built before WW2. Jefferson Blvd, Bishop Arts, Knox St, Lower Greenville, etc are the original urban nodes or streetcar main streets for those neighborhoods. As of now, they are at least 100 years old. They were connected by streetcars to Downtown and were "mini-downtowns" for their area, with Downtown Dallas being the major CBD for the entire city. Dallas peaked at a population density of 7,375 per sq mi in 1940, after having expanded to 40 square miles and a population of 295,000. At the time, Fortune Magazine called Dallas “a mini-Manhattan”.
What a man said in the 1920s about Lower Greenville
I feel like that's what the city is slowly reverting towards. Especially, areas that are within Loop 12. Slowly but surely....
They're talking about reuniting Lower Greenville back to Downtown by streetcar and extending the Dallas Streetcar at Bishop Arts onto Jefferson and Davis. Also, For years they've talked about extending the McKinney Ave Trolley in Uptown to Knox too. It makes sense since those are growing urban neighborhoods with existing density.
Jefferson Blvd and Bishop Ave in the 1940s. The taller building is the 1920s art deco-style Jefferson Tower - notice the streetcar tracks in the road and the streetcar itself further down the road
SOURCE: Flashback Dallas
Knox St in 1949 - streetcar tracks can be seen through the snow
SOURCE: Flashback Dallas
Demolishing the old for the new most times is a net win. Few old buildings and homes in Dallas, or pick a new city anywhere, are of any legit historical value. Most are not particularly interesting either etc. etc.
That said better connecting neighborhoods is worth real investigation.
Demolishing the old for the new most times is a net win. Few old buildings and homes in Dallas, or pick a new city anywhere, are of any legit historical value. Most are not particularly interesting either etc. etc.
That said better connecting neighborhoods is worth real investigation.
Yes. There are historic buildings and landmarks that should not be demolished. Entire neighborhoods are another story. The cities grow and we need structures that better fit that growth
The real issue here is that the redevelopment of many of the neighborhoods could’ve been better.
Demolishing the old for the new most times is a net win. Few old buildings and homes in Dallas, or pick a new city anywhere, are of any legit historical value. Most are not particularly interesting either etc. etc.
That said better connecting neighborhoods is worth real investigation.
It depends on how you look at it. Most of what’s new is strictly suburban in nature and isn’t urban at all. That’s due to current zoning and regulations that developers have to adhere to. What is older typically is more urban. That’s why it’s very hard for any of what was saved to be replicated. If Dallas took that approach to everything, there would be no urban areas in the city besides Uptown. That’s the only area that has been built from scratch in our lifetime. Uptown was built due to them demolishing much of the older neighborhood that existed previously. Dallas doesn’t have that much consistent available land to infill that close to downtown and redevelopment of entire neighborhoods like that would be controversial nowadays.
What was saved has historical significance for the city. For Example: Bishop Arts is a designated historic district. The Texas Theater on Jefferson is where Lee Harvey Oswald was found after the assassination of JFK. A few structures a long it are designated landmarks. So are a few residential neighborhoods in the surrounding area like Winnetka Heights.
Last edited by Dallaz; 08-12-2023 at 11:16 AM..
Reason: Typo
The exact word you are looking for is called “SOUL.” Houston is a port city. It’s been called blue-collar. It’s gritty and not so lovely in places. Yes, some of our neighborhoods have ditches! How BC! It’s been knocked down by hurricanes, 500-year floods, oil busts - yet it always comes back stronger, and the secret that escapes people who hate it is that those calamities draw its citizens closer together. In Houston you can come just as you are but you’d better be real. In fact, we don’t like fakes.
Dallas is an illusion of a city. It builds pretty bridges over waterways that don’t exist to create an illusion of a big important city. It likes shiny, name-brand buildings to try to get noticed. “What is the national reaction?” is always the number one question in Dallas because, well, image is everything. Even Dallas’ beautiful botanic garden is like it’s Northpark Mall. Nothing really grows there. They just switch out the displays with flowers brought in from somewhere else to keep things always looking pretty. Don’t believe me? Go there and you won’t find a single weed in any of the flower beds! Compare that to your own garden and you’ll see the difference between a real garden and an illusion of a garden. Don’t get me wrong. It’s beautiful! I’m a member! But I know it’s all fake.
In Dallas they say Houston is the armpit of Texas. Actually, Houston is the heart and soul of Texas.
Great post. Sums up the two quite well. Just a difference in what each city values and focuses on. For Houston the focus is culture. For Dallas, the focus is on physical aspects of the city itself. Creates two different types of places.
The exact word you are looking for is called “SOUL.” Houston is a port city. It’s been called blue-collar. It’s gritty and not so lovely in places. Yes, some of our neighborhoods have ditches! How BC! It’s been knocked down by hurricanes, 500-year floods, oil busts - yet it always comes back stronger, and the secret that escapes people who hate it is that those calamities draw its citizens closer together. In Houston you can come just as you are but you’d better be real. In fact, we don’t like fakes.
Dallas is an illusion of a city. It builds pretty bridges over waterways that don’t exist to create an illusion of a big important city. It likes shiny, name-brand buildings to try to get noticed. “What is the national reaction?” is always the number one question in Dallas because, well, image is everything. Even Dallas’ beautiful botanic garden is like it’s Northpark Mall. Nothing really grows there. They just switch out the displays with flowers brought in from somewhere else to keep things always looking pretty. Don’t believe me? Go there and you won’t find a single weed in any of the flower beds! Compare that to your own garden and you’ll see the difference between a real garden and an illusion of a garden. Don’t get me wrong. It’s beautiful! I’m a member! But I know it’s all fake.
In Dallas they say Houston is the armpit of Texas. Actually, Houston is the heart and soul of Texas.
Dallas is an illusion of a city? What nonsense. Also, as a lifer, per your usage I've not even one time heard some say, "what is the national reaction." Special purpose gardens of myriad types the world over are pristinely maintained. Do you berate A&M for the perfect, literally weed free, grass around MSG? Ever seen a Japanese garden in Japan?
Dallas is an illusion of a city? What nonsense. Also, as a lifer, per your usage I've not even one time heard some say, "what is the national reaction." Special purpose gardens of myriad types the world over are pristinely maintained. Do you berate A&M for the perfect, literally weed free, grass around MSG? Ever seen a Japanese garden in Japan?
Dallas is an illusion of a city? What nonsense. Also, as a lifer, per your usage I've not even one time heard some say, "what is the national reaction." Special purpose gardens of myriad types the world over are pristinely maintained. Do you berate A&M for the perfect, literally weed free, grass around MSG? Ever seen a Japanese garden in Japan?
Meh, I prefer chaos.
I am not a fan of formal gardens, and I think lawns are killing the world.
Natural gardens are my thing. Gardens with structure. A canopy, an underscore, shrubs, grown cover and vines.
I'm not saying Dallas is an illusion of a city, but I get what he is saying about Dallas being pretentious, overly manicured, sanitized, all flash and not a lot of film, keeping up with the Joneses, lotta 30k millionaire type of city.
Don't get me wrong, Dallas has its organic areas, but on a whole it is more sanitized than Houston and I am more into grit.
Dallas is an illusion of a city? What nonsense. Also, as a lifer, per your usage I've not even one time heard some say, "what is the national reaction." Special purpose gardens of myriad types the world over are pristinely maintained. Do you berate A&M for the perfect, literally weed free, grass around MSG? Ever seen a Japanese garden in Japan?
Are you a subscriber to the DMN? Do a search on “National Reaction” and you’ll be amazed how many hits you get. Granted, most of them are sports related but the attitude goes beyond sports. There are pages of examples.
I don’t berate the Dallas Arboretum. I told you I bought a membership. It’s a gorgeous place to spend a day. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s not organic. It’s “put together” and that is what is so “Dallas.” Do a search on Dallas Arboretum vs. Fort Worth Botanic Garden and you’ll see similar comments.
It’s ok! Dallas prides itself on glitz. That’s not a surprise to anyone. Dallas boosters rave about how glitzy the Dallas skyline looks at night with all the lights on the buildings. It’s a Dallas thing. Embrace it.
Ok, illusion of a city is harsh, but Dallas is more akin to Las Vegas than to Chicago.
PS, I know you try really hard to be objective. You’re literally the only one on C-D that tries to paint Dallas as a foodie City. I get that you don’t want to seem like a Houston booster. You even put Austin in your profile I guess to make people think you live there and not in Houston??
The thing is, you can love a city and still be objective. You don’t think I know where Houston falls short? And I give props to Dallas for certain things…their arboretum being one of them. They also have a fine Symphony Hall.
I try to be nice and only say good things, but some of their posters (not EDS or Dallaz) really irritate me with their condescending snide remarks. You claim to not pick up on the arrogance of Dallasites but you don’t know what you don’t know. Give it time.
Más sabe el diablo por viejo, que por diablo!
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