Houston Abilene Flight (Midland, San Angelo, West: appointed, 2013, loan)

[Htown2013]

Extremely disappointed that the direct Houston to Abilene flight was canceled. There is no longer a reasonable way to travel between Houston and Abilene. Both Houston to San Angelo and Houston to Abilene flights were canceled at the same time.

NOTHING with a direct flight to Houston is in reasonable driving distance. It is easier to drive to Abilene than fly to the nearest location with a direct flight (both DFW and Midland are still > 2.5 hours away). It is faster and easier to drive than taking lousy American Airlines connecting flight through DFW. This turned a simple one hour flight into an ordeal taking the better part of a day regardless of how you get there.

Understand it is not a major market and made sense to cancel either San Angelo or Abilene but NOT both. Both San Angelo and Abilene are in reasonable driving distance of each other to be able to share the flight market.

I think Abilene is the larger market, so it would make sense to have a few direct flights between IAH and Abilene, maybe not many and maybe not even every day, but at least something on a small SkyWest United Express plane.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by Htown2013

Extremely disappointed that the direct Houston to Abilene flight was canceled. There is no longer a reasonable way to travel between Houston and Abilene. Both Houston to San Angelo and Houston to Abilene flights were canceled at the same time.

NOTHING with a direct flight to Houston is in reasonable driving distance. It is easier to drive to Abilene than fly to the nearest location with a direct flight (both DFW and Midland are still > 2.5 hours away). It is faster and easier to drive than taking lousy American Airlines connecting flight through DFW. This turned a simple one hour flight into an ordeal taking the better part of a day regardless of how you get there.

Understand it is not a major market and made sense to cancel either San Angelo or Abilene but NOT both. Both San Angelo and Abilene are in reasonable driving distance of each other to be able to share the flight market.

I think Abilene is the larger market, so it would make sense to have a few direct flights between IAH and Abilene, maybe not many and maybe not even every day, but at least something on a small SkyWest United Express plane.

There is a massive shortage in pilots right now. This is especially true in the regional market. UA relies more on regional jets than any other airline. This is hitting them quite hard. I dont have access to profitability but loads were very poor on both of those routes. In normal circumstances they may have toughed it out longer but right now they have to be very picky.

IAH also isnt DFW. It never will be. We will never have the type of connectivity that can support such small markets as our friends up north.

UA has cancelled a very large number of routes network wide in the last few months. IAD was the hardest hit at 16 routes gone. Weve lost about 6. DEN and ORD also lost about that amount.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

There is a massive shortage in pilots right now. This is especially true in the regional market. UA relies more on regional jets than any other airline. This is hitting them quite hard. I dont have access to profitability but loads were very poor on both of those routes. In normal circumstances they may have toughed it out longer but right now they have to be very picky.

IAH also isnt DFW. It never will be. We will never have the type of connectivity that can support such small markets as our friends up north.

UA has cancelled a very large number of routes network wide in the last few months. IAD was the hardest hit at 16 routes gone. Weve lost about 6. DEN and ORD also lost about that amount.

American Airlines is losing A LOT more money than United Airlines even with their higher debt.

I’ll be interested to see what happens to the airline industry when investors and government assistance pull the plug on their support.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

American Airlines is losing A LOT more money than United Airlines even with their higher debt.

I’ll be interested to see what happens to the airline industry when investors and government assistance pull the plug on their support.

Your first sentence is true, but DFW, CLT, and MIA are not the reasons. Those hubs are super profitable (prior to pandemic anyway). They do poorly in LA and NY. ORD, PHL, and PHX are hit and miss.

The reason AA struggles so much is that their cost of operation is SOOOO much higher than their competitors. Either way, IAH will never be DFW in connectivity which was my original point. DFW can support flights to any tiny town within 1,000 miles. We cant. UA relies on us for connectivity to Latin America and some regional domestic connectivity.

Government assistance is ending but as far as investors go, those will be around forever. All the airlines were profitable in 2019 and thats what will matter in the eyes of investors.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Your first sentence is true, but DFW, CLT, and MIA are not the reasons. Those hubs are super profitable (prior to pandemic anyway). They do poorly in LA and NY. ORD, PHL, and PHX are hit and miss.

The reason AA struggles so much is that their cost of operation is SOOOO much higher than their competitors. Either way, IAH will never be DFW in connectivity which was my original point. DFW can support flights to any tiny town within 1,000 miles. We cant. UA relies on us for connectivity to Latin America and some regional domestic connectivity.

Government assistance is ending but as far as investors go, those will be around forever. All the airlines were profitable in 2019 and thats what will matter in the eyes of investors.

Investors will be around forever but as it comes to airlines, they aren’t what they were pre pandemic. There’s solid evidence on this. The airline industry isn’t going to die (any time soon atleast) but I’m expecting a shake up at the least.

I’m not saying any of this has anything to do with DFW or IAH. I’m just pointing out the difference between these airlines financials. Of the big 3, American loses far more than their 2 counterparts. This obviously can’t last forever and I’m interested to see what will happen as a result.

The airline industry isn’t alone in seeing a shake up. The rest of this year and the next couple of years will showcase the “true” long terms of the pandemic as government assistance and investors continue to pull the plug. The airline industry of course being one of the most impacted but not the only one.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Investors will be around forever but as it comes to airlines, they aren’t what they were pre pandemic. There’s solid evidence on this. The airline industry isn’t going to die (any time soon atleast) but I’m expecting a shake up at the least.

I’m not saying any of this has anything to do with DFW or IAH. I’m just pointing out the difference between these airlines financials. Of the big 3, American loses far more than their 2 counterparts. This obviously can’t last forever and I’m interested to see what will happen as a result.

The airline industry isn’t alone in seeing a shake up. The rest of this year and the next couple of years will showcase the “true” long terms of the pandemic as government assistance and investors continue to pull the plug. The airline industry of course being one of the most impacted but not the only one.

I agree there could be a shake up of sorts, but what Im expecting may be different.

AA, DL, UA, and WN arent going anywhere. They are too powerful as entities. What may happen is a route network shake up. AA and DL are notorious for throwing their weight around and that often leads to money losing strategies (especially with AA). But there is a catch: all airlines want to be big in NY and LA but that flying isnt often profitable. But then you also have to fly extensively from those markets in order to win corporate contracts. For example, if you dont fly from LAX to places like BOS, NYC, MCO, WAS, and SEA, you arent going to win any corporate contracts. So they feel pressured to do it even though its money losing.

In the case of AA, they are already burdened with high costs. DL can afford to get away with more because their costs are so much lower. Same with WN. UA tends to stay out of the pissing matches.

In truth what Im expecting is a retrenching into the hub and spoke system. UA is pretty much already there. AA and DL do a lot outside of it.

[LocalPlanner]

I believe as of late 2019 UA was going to restart its San Angelo direct flight, I guess that got put on hold?

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I believe as of late 2019 UA was going to restart its San Angelo direct flight, I guess that got put on hold?

They already did but they pulled out mainly (as mentioned by AsBelow) due to the pilot shortage. But also because of the general airline industry’s fall. AAL seems like it doesn’t mind bleeding to death, UAL is being a bit more conservative.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

I agree there could be a shake up of sorts, but what Im expecting may be different.

AA, DL, UA, and WN arent going anywhere. They are too powerful as entities. What may happen is a route network shake up. AA and DL are notorious for throwing their weight around and that often leads to money losing strategies (especially with AA). But there is a catch: all airlines want to be big in NY and LA but that flying isnt often profitable. But then you also have to fly extensively from those markets in order to win corporate contracts. For example, if you dont fly from LAX to places like BOS, NYC, MCO, WAS, and SEA, you arent going to win any corporate contracts. So they feel pressured to do it even though its money losing.

In the case of AA, they are already burdened with high costs. DL can afford to get away with more because their costs are so much lower. Same with WN. UA tends to stay out of the pissing matches.

In truth what Im expecting is a retrenching into the hub and spoke system. UA is pretty much already there. AA and DL do a lot outside of it.

Right, I don’t expect a late 2000s type of massive merger. But considering someone is paying for these losses (whether it’s the government, a high stake investor, or a high interest rate long term loan,). The money comes from somewhere. But nonetheless, there’s likely changes to come.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

They already did but they pulled out mainly (as mentioned by AsBelow) due to the pilot shortage. But also because of the general airline industry’s fall. AAL seems like it doesn’t mind bleeding to death, UAL is being a bit more conservative.

Oh OK because in 2018-2019 when I was doing work in those areas United did not have a flight to either city. So I guess they started new ones after that, then canceled them with COVID or whatever.