April is Confederate History & Heritage Month in Texas (Houston: sales, 2013)

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by texan55

so does that mean that those of us who's families were here before the europeans are entitled to the land?

or maybe we can just allow our mexican brothers to come over and establish their own government, the u.s. can just get over it.

You and your family must have some really good genes to have witness the coming of the Europeans and still be around to tell the tale.

Yes, if you owned it back then it is yours. Take it. Good luck researching the land titles though.

Fact of the Matter is Spain controlled Land stretching from Florida to South America. Do you know how many Central american Countries Spain lumped in with the Mexican Territory?? ALL OF THEM. That doesn't give people born in Mexico today any rights to Panama.

[ETex2]

It's truly sad that by celebrating or glorifying your ancestors that fought in the civil war, and showing your pride by flying the confederate flag, will get you labeled as a racist, or worse. It is easy to have contempt for people who are truly racist, but it also quite easy to have contempt for people who are just looking for a reason to be offended by symbols they do not understand, or have no real knowledge of.

[Smiled]

Owning other people was never in fashion.

I'm sorry - I stopped being politically correct a long time ago.
This war was all about trying to keep a slave economy. Today we use illegals instead.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by ETex2

It's truly sad that by celebrating or glorifying your ancestors that fought in the civil war, and showing your pride by flying the confederate flag, will get you labeled as a racist, or worse. It is easy to have contempt for people who are truly racist, but it also quite easy to have contempt for people who are just looking for a reason to be offended by symbols they do not understand, or have no real knowledge of.

And sadly, this is usually the case. I would honestly bet that the vast majority of those who claimed to be "offended" never even knew that the flag in question was/is a Confederate Flag. People pass by it on any Six Flags Over Texas display in the state thousands of times a day...and most likely never give it a thought.

But hey, bang! Let the cowardly pack media sniff out a story concerning anything remotely connected with Southern/Confederate history and see a way to get ratings by stirring up crap over a "racial controversy" that never existed to begin with? Then they go after it like a pack of jackals....or sharks at a bloodspill. And piously say they were just reporting the news. What a wonderful way to make a living. Reminds me of those little snots on the grade-school playground who provoked a fight between others...then ran and hid behind teachers skirts less they get their own wussy little noses bloodied. They make a big wave but are always careful to keep their own clothes safe and dry.. And then THAT brings out the professional agitators...and then those who, as you say, ET, really don't know much about it to begin with.

Anyway, regardless. There are plenty of threads for debating the causes of the War Between the States. April is Confederate History Month in the state and, right or wrong as it may be percieved, Texas was an all-out Confederate state and much of our history is wrapped up in it. It is not necessary to proclaim right or wrong in discussing some of the very important components of Texas history wrapped up in the Confederate (and Reconstruction) experience. Lots of it is facinating and interesting and can be shared without a fight over causes or blame.

For instance, how many know that Texas troops have a strong case for originating the famous "Rebel Yell"? That the Bonnie Blue Flag has a strong association with Texas? That there were some verses in many variations of the song "Dixie" which specifically mentioned Texas? Texas' Confederate History is one often neglected...even though it later played a strong role in the developement of the state.

[Sandstorm214]

Well, I've stayed out of this discussion for as long as I can. I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and no one is going to change mine, but I've got to put my two cents in.

It really gets old after a while being told that those of us who prefer not having the Confederate flag waving from our state's public buildings "don't understand" or "have no knowledge" of what we're talking about. I'm an educated white guy and a native of this state who has been around the block a time or two. I love history--I was short two courses from having a minor in history in college, so with all due respect I think I have a pretty good idea of what that flag means to me. By the same token, I realize that flags mean different things to different people. I'm not personally offended by the Confederate flag, but I'm by no means a fan of it either. As far as our history goes, it means about the same to me as the French flag or the Mexican flag.

However, whether it's fair or not, the majority of Americans associate the flag with slavery and racism and that isn't going to change after all of these decades. It's a part of our state's history that is unfortunate in my opinion. Racism was shrouded in that flag for many years after the Civil War. It's a nice looking flag, but it will always have that association. For that reason, I would rather not have friends and family from out of state who may have never been here before to immediately turn their thoughts to that period in our history. Confederate sympathizers have every right to fly the flag on their personal property, and I will always respect that right. It doesn't mean I have to like it, though.

I also have no doubt that those who raise the Confederate flag know exactly the negative reaction it stirs in many people. Again, that's your prerogative, but let's not feign the surprise and shock every time someone has something negative to say about it. Defending your belief is admirable, but it's hardly surprising for someone in 2011 to not care for it when a Confederate flag is set atop a public building.

We have a state to be proud of today. For me, that's what matters.

[AlGreen]

Technically, this isn't a Texas issue, but it is related:

Civil War marker may be moved off MLK Drive *| ajc.com

I think this is just silly. The NAACP is really wasting their time with this.

[L210]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Yes, you are. Go back over our exchange from the start. I have answered everything you brought up. What you don't like are the actual historical answers that go against what is quite obvious from the start that the main blame lies with the South. I am perfectly willing to let others be the judge.



Not necessarily, because large scale agriculture (climate, landscape, etc) was not profitable in most of Europe and in the North. It was easier to hire and fire workers as needed and get rid of them when they were no longer of use, than to be obligated to care for them in sickness and old age.

However, that did NOT mean the same were not fulling willing to turn a dollar by supporting slavery in other ways. Including, buying Southern cotton.

Anyway, decent point about the refusal to recognize the Confederacy. However, the main reason was that they (England and France) were not wiling to risk war with the United States until they were certain the Confederacy could win. As it was, right before the Battle of Sharpsburg (Antietam) they were just THAT far from recognizing the CSA. When it ended in draw (strategically a Southern defeat), that pretty much ended major hopes.

I have gotten the justifications I wanted although I strongly disagree with them. Like you said, it's about interpretation and one's point of view. I have a tendency to start long debates which can annoy people, so I'm going to stop hijacking this thread.

The reason why I make it a point to dispel the happy slave myth is because I've been told it several times. You may not believe in it, but I have heard the side of the "losers" from a bunch of East Texans who did believe and probably still believe in the happy slave myth. It is important to learn history so it isn't repeated, but it does no good if the history is sugarcoated. The happy slave myth is almost like being a Holocaust denier and I have ran into those too.

[L210]

Unfortunately for those who want to honor their ancestors by waving the Rebel flag, it has been hijacked by racist groups. As a person of color who sees someone waving a Rebel flag, there is no way to tell if that person is racist or not unless you know them. I have older family members who have been harassed by those proudly displaying that flag, so the connection will always be there for them. It's not a lack of understanding of where the flag came from, it is the understanding of what the flag has been used for since. Some people just don't take the time to understand that flag brings fear to people of color for very legitimate reasons.

As far as people being against the Confederate flag being displayed on government buildings, the media didn't have to do much to rouse them. All it takes is the mention of it being representative of the Confederacy and that's enough to make people upset. I don't think it's okay for the people to be kept in the dark about that being the Confederate flag at that courthouse. They should know what it is and make up their own minds.

[L210]

Originally Posted by txtoal

If blacks can have their Black history month, Mexicans can have their national Hispanic heritage month, and everything else that is celebrated for all races and religions, why is it such a big deal if Confederate history and heritage month is celebrated?? And don't tell me that "the Civil War was insensitive, cruel, usless, wrong, evil, a black mark upon the US, etc, etc. etc. It is a part of history, no matter how the results turned out.

I think there is a difference between recognizing/studying something and celebrating it. I think people are mostly disagreeing on whether or not it is something that should be celebrated.

[AlGreen]

Originally Posted by txtoal

If blacks can have their Black history month, Mexicans can have their national Hispanic heritage month, and everything else that is celebrated for all races and religions, why is it such a big deal if Confederate history and heritage month is celebrated?? And don't tell me that "the Civil War was insensitive, cruel, usless, wrong, evil, a black mark upon the US, etc, etc. etc. It is a part of history, no matter how the results turned out.

Black History Month isn't "ours", it's everybody's.