520 Tolls, I-90 Tolls (Seattle, Tacoma, Bellevue: insurance, houses, transfer)

[Hemlock140]

Even if most of the 520 bridge traffic hadn't moved to I90 when the toll started, the amount being charged is only a drop in the bucket, no where near enough to pay for the bridge. Because tolls are not considered taxes, they are not subject to the same laws and are easy to impose, so the state looks at it as a cash cow. You will see I90 tolled soon, followed by I5 through Seattle, and 405 Tukwila to Lynnwood, and more. Meanwhile, Metro is cutting bus routes due to budget problems, because bus fares are not even close to enough to cover the cost of bus purchase/repair, fuel, and (union) drivers.

[Inkpoe]

There used to be a toll on 520. When the bridge was finally paid off, the government wanted to keep it there. Of course the citizens weren't too happy with that so the issue went to the courts. The courts agreed that the tolls cannot stay.

They've changed the wording now, where even if the bridge were paid off, the tolls will stay for "maintenance". I can only wonder if the toll rate would be low then, though I highly doubt it.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

There used to be a toll on 520. When the bridge was finally paid off, the government wanted to keep it there. Of course the citizens weren't too happy with that so the issue went to the courts. The courts agreed that the tolls cannot stay.

They've changed the wording now, where even if the bridge were paid off, the tolls will stay for "maintenance". I can only wonder if the toll rate would be low then, though I highly doubt it.

No, it will continue to go up as the cost of maintenance goes up. I wonder if they will toll that little I5 Skagit River bridge after it's repaired.

[RunTheDistance476]

Originally Posted by eskercurve

Statistically, I really am smarter than 99% of the rest of the population, so I apologize if what I say is a little difficult to understand, so I'll try dumbing it down.

Exactly how are you "statistically" smarter than 99% of the population, what measure mislead you? Did you take an IQ test online? lol

That post is really long and quite frankly, a waste of space.

You talk about how gas mileage for vehicles is being raised, which makes raising gas taxes "like peeing against the wind"...

hmm...where to start with that one.

But seriously, you think that hybrids and electric cars are going to be adopted so quickly that they will have a SIGNIFICANT impact on gas usage within the the 15-20 years? Please, you're an imbecile. There are cars from the 1980's still going strong getting 10 mpg everywhere in this city. There are also plenty of trucks, diesels, traffic (I don't know if you know this, but traffic diminishes..I mean...lowers fuel efficiency), mountainous terrain and other factors that take that 40 mpg for a new compact down to around 20-25ish when driving in the Sound.

Also, when I said that I don't have a problem with taxes funding other initiatives, I didn't mean gas taxes specifically, I meant in general (from other sources). Nice to see you show off that 99%, top-rated reading comprehension.

You did a great job "dumbing it down" for me, although, dissect is still a pretty big word, I don't understand what that one means.

PS, you must have a lot of friends

[eskercurve]

Originally Posted by wlw2009

Exactly how are you "statistically" smarter than 99% of the population, what measure mislead you? Did you take an IQ test online? lol

That post is really long and quite frankly, a waste of space.

You talk about how gas mileage for vehicles is being raised, which makes raising gas taxes "like peeing against the wind"...

hmm...where to start with that one. So, since gas prices peaked somewhere around 2005-2007, the average mpg for ALL new vehicles has gone up by how much over 6-7 years? Maybe +5 mpg for the compact cars. Tolling 520 to pay for 520 seems inefficient when you could raise a gas tax by say, 10 cents per gallon and have everyone pay a share for a road that benefits the entire area, not just car commuters only. Not saying raising the gas tax would be a fix all solution, but it would spread the suffering a little bit (even if it only paid $500 million over 20 years).

But seriously, you think that hybrids and electric cars are going to be adopted so quickly that they will have a SIGNIFICANT impact on gas usage within the the 15-20 years? Please, you're an imbecile. There are cars from the 1980's still going strong getting 10 mpg everywhere in this city. There are also plenty of trucks, diesels, traffic (I don't know if you know this, but traffic diminishes..I mean...lowers fuel efficiency), mountainous terrain and other factors that take that 40 mpg for a new compact down to around 20-25ish when driving in the Sound.

You did a great job "dumbing it down" for me, although, dissect is still a pretty big word, I don't understand what that one means.

PS, you must have a lot of friends

There was just a nugget of interesting post in there, and then you had to ruin it with that last sentence. Thanks wlw for proving a point: the folks who don't have the intelligence to critically think often blast what they don't understand through vitriol, and attack the people who do understand it with ad hominem. I'm through with you.

[Jalhop]

Originally Posted by mkarch

Compared to some of the ill-thought out transportation projects we've had to pay for, bridge tolls are pretty reasonable. They put the cost on users.

The economic fallout from people tending to stay on one side of the lake could make tolling more harmful than good.

[Botev1912]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

No, it will continue to go up as the cost of maintenance goes up. I wonder if they will toll that little I5 Skagit River bridge after it's repaired.

I thought it's illegal to toll interstates?

[Inkpoe]

Originally Posted by Botev1912

I thought it's illegal to toll interstates?

There are plenty of interstates that are tolled. As long as you got the Feds to ok it, an interstate can be tolled.

[RunTheDistance476]

I-70 in Kansas is tolled for 100 miles or so.

[Hemlock140]

The state has done studies on tolling I5 already.

WSDOT - Tolling Planning

The gas tax revenue is definitely down because of increased vehicle gas mileage, that's why they started to charge the annual fee on electrics. If tolls increase bus use, the gas tax revenue will drop even more. The studies on charging taxes by odometer readings were mean to overcome these problems, but have their own set, such as driving in another state on trips, and not getting the gas
tax from tourists. I expect some combination of taxation/fees from various sources to maximize the
revenue, but it will never be enough to pay for all of the many overdue road/bridge projects.