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I get mistaken for one of the more clean-cut hipsters quite often and definately dig many things in the subculture, but I find hipsters almost more entitled and annoying than spandex-clad bike nazis, fleece-frumps and aging hippies! I can go from drinking a $2 PBR at Linda's, completely in my element, and head down to Polar Bar for a cognac and enjoy the hell out of it. Most hipsters can't function like that. They're too provincial. It's quaint.
Hmmm...what stereotype do I fit into? Dunno. Not much of a joiner. Like freedom too much to stick to some particular style of clothing or music or whatever as identity - which is one of the reasons I chose this place to live.
I've seen capes, tutus, epic hair, steampunk - you name it - and it's fantastic that there's a place in the world where people can relax and be themselves without judgement.
I think thats one major cultural difference between the PNW and more conservative-leaning places like perhaps the southeast - differences in fashion/music/hobbies etc. are encouraged rather than shunned.
I'm not too familiar with Raleigh, but I wonder why SeattlitefromNC thinks it is bland and homogeneous compared to the Seattle area?
A quick comparison via Wikipedia of King County, WA and Wake County, NC demographics shows that Wake County actually seems equally if not a bit more diverse:
- King County is about 76% White; Wake County is about 72% White
- King County is about 5% Black; Wake County is nearly 20% Black
- King County is abut 11% Asian; Wake County is about 3% Asian
- King County and Wake County are both about 5% Hispanic
So the Seattle area seems to have a bit more Asian culture, but quite a bit less in the way of African-American culture.
In both cases, the stats above come from 2000 census data, so I'm guessing that Hispanic numbers have probably gone up in both places, but probably more quickly in North Carolina (since I think Hispanic immigrants tend to move to where cost of living is lower).
Are there other non-demographic ways in which SeattlitefromNC or others familiar with Raleigh think the area is more homogeneous than Seattle? Politically I'd guess that NC is probably more homogeneously conservative, but Seattle is probably more homogeneously liberal. Etc.
I shouldn't be annoyed since again I have no skin in the game when it comes to Raleigh, but I understand that the Triangle area of NC is booming and it just seems to me offensive and unfair to label an entire city as bland.
PS - I did a little more digging into the demographic data and found that Raleigh has a higher percentage (52% vs 46%) of married couples living together. So Seattle seems to be more of a singles scene based on this very superficial demographic analysis. Maybe that's what SeattlitefromNC means by bland? Married couples - especially if they have kids - often spend more time at home with family as opposed to partying out on the town. So if bland = less nightlife, I could see why perhaps Raleigh might appear bland...
aaronmidnight, good research and info. Obviously Raleigh in general is more conservative than Seattle. However, it's not as conservative as many people out west believe it is. I think Raleigh in general is probably moderate politically and socially, and depending where one lives it may lean more to the right (conservative), and other areas a bit more to the left (slightly liberal). Overall though it feels balanced to me with a slight lean to the right.
Many good posts and replies to my OP. I will try to answer some of the questions or clarify some of the points the best I can.
1) About food and restaurants- As I stated in my original post, there are obviously lots and lots of good restaurants I did not go to. Besides Paseo and a few other places, I did not go to Seattle to specifically check out certain restaurants. It was more like choosing where to eat depending where I was at the time. As far as Rock Bottom Brewery, I was commenting more of the good service I received there and decent appetizers they had. Many places I visited that I did not comment on was OK at best. Places like El Chupacabra had really good Burritos but average service at best. Maybe next time I visit Seattle I will research better eateries and ask for suggestions here on City-Data. Again, I am not sure if it is the laid back lifestyle or what, but it seemed many of the servers and bartenders were indifferent of providing good service.
2) To Bill Loney- I did not eat at Baranof. I actually had a few drinks there as a few people referred me to that place. My statement of Baranof was more towards the level of service compared to their review on yelp and what others told me. As far as Raleigh goes, yes, definitely more conservative than Seattle, but it is not your typical "Southern" city or town.
3) To Seattle_Sundial- again I agree that overall Seattle offers more and I am not sure how long ago you lived in Raleigh. However, over the last 10 years or so downtown Raleigh has been gradually revitilized with more and more bars and restaurants. I have been told that in the late 90's it was a ghost town and not to safe. Glennwood South area and nearby areas of downtown is actually growing nicely since the time I first visited Raleigh about 5 years ago.
4) To Robinelli and Jesse B- I too do not care to fit in or be categorized with any one group. I could talk and hangout with hipsters or preppies. Just like Jesse B mentioned, the extreme hipsters seem to not want to be around others unlike them. It seems like extreme hipsters look down at mainstream folks the same way some mainstream folks look down at them. Fortunately, Seattle in general is accepting of different types of folks; and that is one of the positive aspects I like about Seattle.
5) To Doctor Rain- I agree, Asheville is more like Seattle than Raleigh is. Actually, Asheville and Austin are 2 cities not in the PNW that are the most similiar to Seattle out of the cities that I have visited as far as music scene, arts, and overall feel and lifestyle.
Ideally I like places that are somewhat balanced politically and socially, preferably places that are slightly more liberal than conservative since it seems those places are more accepting of different people and people in general. However, in my experiences in traveling and visiting different cities and states, I have found that both extremes do not appeal to me. Both extremes seem to not be tolerant of opposing views whether it is extreme conservatives to the right, or extreme liberals to the left.
I get mistaken for one of the more clean-cut hipsters quite often and definately dig many things in the subculture, but I find hipsters almost more entitled and annoying than spandex-clad bike nazis, fleece-frumps and aging hippies! I can go from drinking a $2 PBR at Linda's, completely in my element, and head down to Polar Bar for a cognac and enjoy the hell out of it. Most hipsters can't function like that. They're too provincial. It's quaint.
Whew! I'm being an ass! haha
No I am the same way as you. I can either drink cheap beer or expensive beer or even cheaper liquor to expensive. Although I will not have a mixed drink with Old GrandDad again EWW.
I can balance both out, so does that mean I am also more unique than your typical hipster? Everything about me says hipster on the surface, but I believe I am more down to earth. I mean I talked to someone who told me certain beers they wont drink and literally acted too good for it or acted too good for even buying a few things at dollar stores. I was even aggravated after hearing it after 10 minutes. That is what I call a pretentious attitude. I can at least drink a cheap beer or drink other cheap liquor depending on what it is.
aaronmidnight, good research and info. Obviously Raleigh in general is more conservative than Seattle. However, it's not as conservative as many people out west believe it is. I think Raleigh in general is probably moderate politically and socially, and depending where one lives it may lean more to the right (conservative), and other areas a bit more to the left (slightly liberal). Overall though it feels balanced to me with a slight lean to the right.
You are absolutely correct - Raleigh is the counterbalance that regulates the conservative leaning of the rest of the state.
I lived there between the beginning of 2007 and the end of 2009, which would mean that I only saw the 'revitalized' version of downtown Raleigh..
As for aaronmidnight's statistics, I think the significance of ethnic diversity is overstated when evaluating how bland or dull a population is. In my opinion, a more accurate indicator would be overall population and density. Seattle has a thriving urban feel that Raleigh simply lacks. Raleigh is like suburbia on repeat except for the twenty blocks of older buildings in the middle of the city (read: bland).
That said, RTP (which is _not_ Raleigh and cannot be counted as such) really is a 'booming' corporate park. I don't doubt that it will do many good things for the cities in that region.. but who knows when that will actually happen.
5) To Doctor Rain- I agree, Asheville is more like Seattle than Raleigh is. Actually, Asheville and Austin are 2 cities not in the PNW that are the most similiar to Seattle out of the cities that I have visited as far as music scene, arts, and overall feel and lifestyle.
Ideally I like places that are somewhat balanced politically and socially, preferably places that are slightly more liberal than conservative since it seems those places are more accepting of different people and people in general. However, in my experiences in traveling and visiting different cities and states, I have found that both extremes do not appeal to me. Both extremes seem to not be tolerant of opposing views whether it is extreme conservatives to the right, or extreme liberals to the left.
I thought it was based on everything I heard. Also I think other close mentions for the south are St Pete FL, Tampa FL, Sarasota FL, maybe FT Lauderdale all come the closest for the south to Seattle. If Sarasota was 6 times bigger peoplewise that is. I would say Athens GA especially for music, but however it doesnt seem to be any more than a small college town with great music, I dont think theres arts or many job options there at all. I wouldnt even put Atlanta in the highly progressive category either, but I would say it is a Houston type city meaning somewhat progressive, but not a great place to live by any stretch and fully depends on the car. Atlanta has more for arts than Athens I'd say and more gays, but other than that, I wouldn't pick Atlanta.
Austin IMO would be quite good, but the fact its in Texas makes me consider and Texas weather is worse than FL imo. Texas may be cheaper to live in but like I always say.. If something is cheap, its cheap for a reason. No services, no funding for social programs makes a bad place. I dont care how good they claim their economy is. This factor I think makes Seattle a top choice as well. Good economy AND social programs and it = a high cost of living, but for good reason too.
I mean FL sprinkler water is free, but guess what the catch is, its recycled poop smelling water. LOL.
Asheville imo seems like the best southern city to relocate to, but either way its still the south. 100 degree + humid summers and cold winters.
Give me Portland/Seattle anyday.
Also, balanced places are best. You never wanna go all the way to one side than another. If picking though, I would rather have it be mostly lefties than far right neocons or neo nazis though. The latter is the worst to deal with in numbers I find (for me it is anyhow).
Asheville's weather is actually more mild than many other cities in the South because it is in the mountains. The real problem with the town is that there is zero employment opportunities that aren't in the restaurant business.
And I'm going to guess that the blandness that people are referring to in reference to Raleigh doesn't have to do with race statistics picked up from a website: it has to do with the suburban hell of RTP. Bellevue is a hip urban jungle compared to Cary, NC.
If picking though, I would rather have it be mostly lefties than far right neocons or neo nazis though. The latter is the worst to deal with in numbers I find (for me it is anyhow).
The middle of one side is always better than the extreme of the other side.
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