Cost to run electric primary (farmland, acre, house, water)
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Hello. I'm purchasing a piece of raw land which will need both electric and water run to the home site. Both the electric company and rural water district have the utilities at the corner of the property, which is about 1400' from the home site. Even though the home will only be about 75 feet from a county road, both utility companies refuse to bring the lines down at their expense. The RWD is going to put the meter in at the corner of the property, and then it is my responsibility to purchase and trench the line approximately 1400' up to my home site (4' deep trench). So what I'm going to do is run both the electric and water in the same trench so that I don't have any overhead poles. I figured might as well throw the electric in there since the trench has to be dug for the water, and it's allowed to put them both in the "same" trench as long as there is at least 18" of horizontal separation. So that's the background, and here's my question.
I got an estimate from the electric co-op in the area for $10,000 - $11,000 - and this is after a $5,000 allowance from them (so total cost without the allowance would be $15,000 - $16,000). This seems pretty high to me, especially since those numbers don't include the cost of trenching (which I'm responsible for, but will be doing anyways for the water line). I priced out some 15kV 1/C 1/0 AWG AL Primary UD at $3.50 / foot (is it large enough for this size run? I really have no idea what size is required for this type of run). So at that price, the wire would be about $4,900. I tried to get a breakdown of cost, but the staking engineer would just say that the total cost was for: wire, transformer, labor, and meter pedestal with 200amp disconnect. The meter pedestal is what, $150-$200? So is the labor and transformer cost really at $10,000 - $11,000? Or am I way off in the size/cost of the wire for underground?
The other question I have is, if I were to hire this out to someone other than the electric co-op, and it would cost me the same amount, would it make more sense for me just to go that route and have them put the meter at the edge of the property (rather than at the house)? This way, the line all the way back to my house is private just like the water line is. I'm thinking the upside to this is I wouldn't have to provide them an easement, except for at the corner where the meter goes. The downside to that could be that I would be responsible for that wire if something happened to it (not likely with underground). But the way I read what they said is that I'm responsible anyways, even if they run the wire, just like I'm having to pay for the whole thing myself. I don't want an easement on my property the whole way, because I don't want them running poles later on for someone else's service through my property later on, especially after paying the extra to go underground.
I've read that some states actually have laws that require utility companies to pay for the infrastructure all the way to the meter at no cost to the customer. But I don't believe any such laws/regulations exist in Kansas.
Last edited by skizot722; 01-14-2017 at 03:22 PM..
"I've read that some states actually have laws that require utility companies to pay for the infrastructure all the way to the meter at no cost to the customer".... There is usually a maximum distance a utility will run free....and it's not far. Ask the utility what size wire you need for 200a service over that distance...and ask if they would sell you the wire...should be the cheapest you'd be able to find.....and you place in the trench.
If code allows it I would put 3 PVC conduit in the trench.
1 2" for the 200A Electric Line
1 1.5" for the Water Line
1 1" - 1.5" for Future use (Phone, Cable, Fiber ...) Who know in 10,20 .. years
So if there is a failure in one of the lines its a Pull old one out of the Conduit, Pull new one thru. Would be way cheaper then re-trenching and re-running in the long run. Would also protect the wire, pipe from rocks and ground settling in the trench.
BTW: I think you need to put a Foil Strip (or wire) above the top Conduit so DigSafe can find the Conduits below.
If code allows it I would put 3 PVC conduit in the trench.
1 2" for the 200A Electric Line
1 1.5" for the Water Line
1 1" - 1.5" for Future use (Phone, Cable, Fiber ...) Who know in 10,20 .. years
So if there is a failure in one of the lines its a Pull old one out of the Conduit, Pull new one thru. Would be way cheaper then re-trenching and re-running in the long run. Would also protect the wire, pipe from rocks and ground settling in the trench.
BTW: I think you need to put a Foil Strip (or wire) above the top Conduit so DigSafe can find the Conduits below.
Water and electric in the same trench?? I didn't think that was considered a good idea.
In order to avoid resistance losses arrange for the utility to supply your underground lines at their distribution voltage with the step-down transformer next to your house.
Question- Why has the Utility refused to run an above ground distribution line along the country road your house is only 75 ft. from? Seems to be the Utility is obligated to supply power along a public road to the point nearest the customer.
I suggest you contact the county and/or state utility commissions and ask them what their connection policies entail.
In order to avoid resistance losses arrange for the utility to supply your underground lines at their distribution voltage with the step-down transformer next to your house.
Question- Why has the Utility refused to run an above ground distribution line along the country road your house is only 75 ft. from? Seems to be the Utility is obligated to supply power along a public road to the point nearest the customer.
I suggest you contact the county and/or state utility commissions and ask them what their connection policies entail.
Where I used to live, the utility company is not obligated to run powerlines along any road at their own expense.
A few years back a realtor sold a 40 acre parcel along a state highway. The buyer was going to build a house and keep the rest for farmland.
The state highway ran south, then west for 1mile, then south again.
The I mile west portion had no powerline.
Buyer asked realtor and he stated.."it's no problem at all"
The buyer bought it and found out it maybe was " no problem", but he had to foot the bill $$$$$$$ to get the power there.
First, on a 1400' run, line loss at household voltage would be unacceptable. No one would even attempt to install it.
That means you are going to have distribution voltage going to a dedicated transformer at the house end of the conduit.
Second, the size of the line and conduit are going to be specified by the engineering department at the power company. Don't buy a single thing without getting those demands in writing.
Third, a small conduit and long run means that if there ever is a problem the fix will be a complete replacement and $$$. Breaking the run into sections and using larger conduit can make more sense.
Depending on your usage, at that distance you are on the cusp of it being more effective to go with home power and solar, especially with the new lithium storage batteries.
Your total cost of running power is going to be much more expensive than you think.
Out of curiosity, how will you be getting internet service? Many people don't consider the problems of reliable internet in a rural setting.
First, on a 1400' run, line loss at household voltage would be unacceptable. No one would even attempt to install it.
That means you are going to have distribution voltage going to a dedicated transformer at the house end of the conduit.
Second, the size of the line and conduit are going to be specified by the engineering department at the power company. Don't buy a single thing without getting those demands in writing.
Third, a small conduit and long run means that if there ever is a problem the fix will be a complete replacement and $$$. Breaking the run into sections and using larger conduit can make more sense.
Depending on your usage, at that distance you are on the cusp of it being more effective to go with home power and solar, especially with the new lithium storage batteries.
Your total cost of running power is going to be much more expensive than you think.
Out of curiosity, how will you be getting internet service? Many people don't consider the problems of reliable internet in a rural setting.
When you say total cost, can you elaborate? The quote from the POCO was from existing pole to the meter. I'm already paying for the trench with water line. Conduit is not required around here. Direct burial cable is designed much much better than it was in the past. Can't see that it would be beneficial either since pulling wire through 1400' of conduit would be next to impossible.
There is Mercury wireless for internet. And there is also Verizon LTE with pretty decent speeds (tower is actually within plain sight). Checking out internet was the first thing I did when I looked at the property.
I've looked into solar (7 kW system) + 2 Tesla Powerwalls. The problem there is that those batteries last 10-12 years. They currently cost around $5500 a piece. So an $11,000 replacement cost in barely 10 years from now doesn't work out too well when looking at this. 7 kW worth of solar panels is between $14,000 - $15,000. So it'd cost me over double to go off grid. Trust me, I'd love to go this route, but the price of solar + battery hasn't come down quite enough to make it affordable vs connecting to the grid. Another thing is that in order to get most of the solar credits, you have to be connected to the grid to feed the unused power back to the POCO. This is a requirement with many of those credits. A 7 kW system would probably actually be stretching it here in the Summer time, where daily power requirements can exceed 33 kWh / day (a normal 7 kW system is about 25 kWh / day). I'd probably require a 10 kW system, and those are well over $20,000.
Last edited by skizot722; 01-16-2017 at 02:12 PM..
You don't pull cable through conduit in many cases. You lay the cable on the side of the trench, find the halfway point and thread the cable through conduit sections from both ends. The dry fit is pushed into the trench and then glued up.
If you use direct burial, you will save considerable cost and labor, and four feet down is sufficient to eliminate most problems. Having done my own trenching through Alabama chert, I'll suggest that the way to save money is to find someone with the biggest meanest backhoe around, something like a JD 710L. I rented an older smaller model and it had to work hard at the task, and some final work had to be done with a mattock and pickaxe.
A meter head is cheap, but this is an area where you really want to plan for future expansion and go large. I went with a box that allows TWO 200 amp outputs with breakers for each. 200 amps is fine for a dwelling, but if you eventually want a shop or to use a welder (both very common in rural areas), that second output will be there waiting for you. That box is around $800.
FWIW, if vertical separation is allowed, a water pipe six feet down is less likely to freeze than one four feet down.
Just going off-the-cuff, allowing $12K for electric mains power hookup. On average, I would expect a $200/mo electric bill. Over 10 years that is $24K in power bills plus the $12K hookup = $36K. $15K in solar panels and 11K in batteries = $26K, add another $11K for new batteries and you are within $1K difference. However - electric rates never go down, only up. Battery technology will likely go down in cost. The costs and advantages/disadvantages are close enough to deserve full investigation.
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