Why did Pontiac stop making the 389ci V8 motors so early?
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1987 Buick GNX's with their single turbo V6, were rated at 276 hp and 360 tq and could give a 1987 Corvette a run for it's money. Two years later they put the same turbo V6 in the 1989 Trans AM for the Indianapolis 500 pace car. I think it even still holds the record for the fastest factory built US production Trans AM.
I think they are the fastest ones on record. I have seen the '89 T/A GTA Turbo's on ebay sell for over $40k (with very low miles of course). Mine basically has the same TPI 350 that's in the '87 Corvette, but with different heads.
Because the 1971 figure is gross hp and the 1972 figure is net.
They really didn't lose that much, it just seems so when comparing gross with net.
For instance, the 1971 rating for the 472 Cadillac engine was 345 hp gross and 235 hp net. The same exact engine, just two different ratings.
And catalytic converters didn't appear until 1975. The 1972 cars didn't have them yet.
If I recall correctly, the 389 was replaced in 1967 with the 400 Pontiac.
Not sure why they killed it, I guess Pontiac figured back then "the bigger the better". Even though up until 1970 GM had a rule of "no more than 400 cubes in passenger autombiles. Corvettes excluded".
I'm sure during the 1st and maybe even the 2nd gas crunch people cringed at how was their 3 deuce 389 gonna survive. I'm sure anyone who drove one made regular use of the 3 carbs.
Fleet is correct, no cats until 1975, automakers began rating the engines fully loaded in 1972 as opposed to just the engine no accessories (like they had been doing) on the dyno.
I believe automakers started doing this in an attempt to make their cars appeal more since now the insurance company was anal raping anyone that wanted a muscle car. Which I'm sure made some think twice until the automakers convinced the insurance companies that their cars weren't really making the power they were.
I think the 1973 455 SD Trans AM was the last car until the 90's rated at over 300 hp, though there were a few that did come close.
You are correct there.
Side note here:
Certain models were counted as muscle cars as in 2 door models only.
Back in 1969 you could order a 427-425 HP/4 spd in a 4 door Chevy Impala........muscle car? Not in the eyes of the insurance companies------it was a family sedan
I have a truck that I have modified over the past 4 years that has a 383 and 420 horsepower and the insurance is $29 a month. Insurance companies are stupid.
Back in 1969 you could order a 427-425 HP/4 spd in a 4 door Chevy Impala........muscle car? Not in the eyes of the insurance companies------it was a family sedan
I believe that fell under what was known as a Central Office Production Order. (COPO)
In '69 if you knew the right people to talk to you could have a 69 Camaro specially ordered with a 427. And yes also in your Impala. I saw one 69 Caprice Kingswood station wagon with a solid lifter 427, the original owner had to special order it COPO and it took months for them to build it.
But that was the trick: knowing who to talk to. The option was never mentioned anywhere on the dealer brochure.
I believe that fell under what was known as a Central Office Production Order. (COPO)
In '69 if you knew the right people to talk to you could have a 69 Camaro specially ordered with a 427. And yes also in your Impala. I saw one 69 Caprice Kingswood station wagon with a solid lifter 427, the original owner had to special order it COPO and it took months for them to build it.
But that was the trick: knowing who to talk to. The option was never mentioned anywhere on the dealer brochure.
And; here is your 1969 Kingswood SW 427/4spd; it is only the '335 HP' version
Actually; the 427-425 should have been RPO in the big Chevy, not a COPO.
That is interesting, although the car I was referring to was special ordered with the solid lifter 425 hp 427. It is said to be the only 69 Kingswood wagon with a factory installed 425 hp 427 to exist. It had a TH400 auto, no a/c, white with wood grain sides and blue interior. it was featured in Muscle Car Review some years back in an issue titled "factory freaks and mystery muscle cars".
The COPO was an aluminum block 427 in the Camaro's. The COPO was the baddest Camaro built, the car didn't even come with a heater, core, controls or anything and only crank windows to keep the weight down. The horsepower rating was grossly under stated to the public for insurance purposes. I always heard they were more in the neighborhood of 585 to 600 horses.
Most of all the old top brute's like the Hemi Dart etc. would run 10's just by throwing slicks on them.
I love Muscle Cars, those were the greatest days, but yes, extreme gas suckers.
lol
The COPO was an aluminum block 427 in the Camaro's. The COPO was the baddest Camaro built, the car didn't even come with a heater, core, controls or anything and only crank windows to keep the weight down. The horsepower rating was grossly under stated to the public for insurance purposes. I always heard they were more in the neighborhood of 585 to 600 horses.
Might be COPO, but that's the ZL1 engine you're thinking of. Yes an all aluminum 427. Not the same as the 425 hp 427. Yes worth a ton of money today. I never heard of them being 585 hp stock though, I think they were closer to 500. You'd have to have a heck of a big cam and a very high c.r. to make a 427 push 585 in 1969. And yes gas suckers, but back then gas was what....35 cents? And that's when you could still get 110 octane at about any gas station. You baby boomers had it made.
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. I have seen the '89 T/A GTA Turbo's on ebay sell for over $40k (with very low miles of course). Mine basically has the same TPI 350 that's in the '87 Corvette, but with different heads.
