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I have read some info here and there about the fallout from the Enlightenment period in relation to the church and religion. In fact, I touched on some of it here under an older screen name:
If you notice, Europe pretty much went in the other direction when it came to religion, pretty much reducing the once powerful church to nothing more than places where tourist go to take pictures nowadays. On this side of the Atlantic, however, Christian fundamentalism has thrived but with the rise of the internet, do you see a new age of Enlightenment (in relation to religion) taking place in this country? I am not sure what Christians are doing about their own in terms of reformation, but one of the side products of the infighting within Christianity was that it gave others a chance to come in contact with suppressed information as the powerful Catholic Church became preoccupied with heretics within their faith.
The fundamentalists are kicking hard against progress (in some arenas) just as in the past in Europe but the winds of change seems to be pushing them into a corner further fueled by the youths amongst them who are also being caught up in progression. I read more and more "testimonies" of people within their ranks either leaving the faith or secretly wanting to as they really don't believe much of that they once believed. Of course, they will say that this was a predicted event, however, despite the packed houses at the mega churches, I see panic and more and more disunity as even other Christians seek to distance themselves from the literalist fundamentalists.
What do you guys think?
Forgive me for the bad writing. I'm actually still waking up.
I think religion will evolve over time to better match up with our understanding of reality, but not disappear entirely. No matter how much our knowledge of science increases, it will never prove there isn't a god.
In fact, I predict science will become more and more like a religious instituion itself as time goes on.
I certainly do see some parallels between what happened in the 18th c. and now. Though we may deplore the excesses of the french revolution the ideas on a secular society had a large following from the freethinkers in the UK to the founding fathers in the USA. To a certain extent Napoleon turned the clock back because he saw religion as useful for keeping order. Hitler the same. Their own views were that it was a useful tool but they personally had their own Faiths involving their own Destinies.
We are in a better position today as we have the information needed to re- evaluate the Bible, not just sideline the Churches. And the same applies to the other faiths, though we got an uphill task with Islam. Their apologetics makes Creationist fundamentalism look positively rational.
As to Chango's point, I fervently hope that science does not ever become dogmatic. Theists often say it is. They are merely projecting their own prejudices onto it. They have replaced reason with faith - based dogmatism and that is the basis of their arguments. Naturally, they assume that science - based arguments are the same. I trust that, so long as there is peer - review and people coming up with new ideas and challenging the old ones, science will never become a dogma. And may Random Factors forfend that the white coat, clipboard and horn - rimmed glasses ever become a ritual costume for anything other than minor actresses doing washing -powder commercials.
As to Chango's point, I fervently hope that science does not ever become dogmatic. Theists often say it is. They are merely projecting their own prejudices onto it. They have replaced reason with faith - based dogmatism and that is the basis of their arguments. Naturally, they assume that science - based arguments are the same. I trust that, so long as there is peer - review and people coming up with new ideas and challenging the old ones, science will never become a dogma. And may Random Factors forfend that the white coat, clipboard and horn - rimmed glasses ever become a ritual costume for anything other than minor actresses doing washing -powder commercials.
me too, but wasn't the Nicene creed "peer review" too? And the scientific method comparable to the 10 commandments as a rock solid, do not cross this line basis for behavior in the organization?
Also, what about the pressures to conform rather than think "outside the box" to protect one's credibility and career? There are parallels between religion and science all over the place.
me too, but wasn't the Nicene creed "peer review" too? And the scientific method comparable to the 10 commandments as a rock solid, do not cross this line basis for behavior in the organization?
Eeeeee..yessss...but not by peers that actually knew anything about the subject.
Quote:
Also, what about the pressures to conform rather than think "outside the box" to protect one's credibility and career?
True. But the truth will out in the end. Though it's taking a long time to realize that the Palace of Minos was more of a monastery.
Eeeeee..yessss...but not by peers that actually knew anything about the subject.
True. But the truth will out in the end. Though it's taking a long time to realize that the Palace of Minos was more of a monastery.
Sorry, but I just have no faith in my fellow man. I guess it's because I belong in the 5th circle of hell. Or do I belong in the 5 circle of hell because I don't have faith in my fellow man? Damn this philosophy stuff!
Sorry, but I just have no faith in my fellow man. I guess it's because I belong in the 5th circle of hell. Or do I belong in the 5 circle of hell because I don't have faith in my fellow man? Damn this philosophy stuff!
But I do have faith that the checks and methods of the scientific method will tend to eliminate the built - in human failings. Instead af doing it this way and it works out and shouting 'Eureka' you try it again another way and see whether it still works. Then you retest. That's what the various cult-thinks don't do.
I am pessimistic about a new age of enlightenment. At least in the humanities but also, perhaps, moving into the hard sciences (how can one build an airplane without reason, so rationality will remain there longer), there seems to be a dying of the rational. Ideologically, the herd is divided, a dual politics invades every system of society (global warming, or belief in it one way or another, seems to align up on a political spectrum, for example). Religion (despite what you personally think about it) lacks theological development, and despite intolerant religious opinion nowadays to the contrary, the theological is a rational structure as it attempts to unfold contridictions in religious thought (the same process works in all the social systems). Religion, across its spectrum, is also invaded by politics, both right and left, by the way, and both of these issues (lack of theological development and overly political invasion) indicates a lack of the rational (services without preaching, money hungry, block support of political candidates, meditation services, psychological emphasis, over abundance of music, emphasis on feeling and emotion). The enlightenment produced some very rational texts and movements within christianity - it was not just a secular phenomena and if you think so you really are ignorant. Religion (if you are an atheist, you should remember that your personal "idea" view does not create the reality of the culture or the social) is a system within the culture like the others (science, economics, governance, family, etc) and its movement into an ignorance of the rational indicates that the other systems are also proceeding along those lines-some more some less (just get a look at what the so called post modern is giving us). If you think "science" is somehow going to go it alone unaffected as the rest of the culture returns to the dark ages you are very ignorant of the totality and structure of a social system.
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the excesses of the french revolution the ideas on a secular society had a large following from the freethinkers in the UK to the founding fathers in the USA. To a certain extent Napoleon turned the clock back because he saw religion as useful for keeping order. Hitler the same. Their own views were that it was a useful tool but they personally had their own Faiths involving their own Destinies. 
