Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The reason Christians have come out so fervently against such genetic tinkering is that it proves, again incontrovertibly, that the relentless march of knowledge brought to us courtesy of the tools of science, can and will produce a living organism, soon, out of simple chemicals you can buy from The Fischer Scientific Catalog.
Imagine, like a Chia Pet™, your inquisitive child will be able, one day, to buy a complete "monkey kit", (no, not those old "sea monkey" kits.... that was just sad!). They could equally do a "Human" kit, but ethically, it might be a bit tough, to grow your own slaves, for instance...
But surely, say, a "kit" mouse. Which would, true to the species, then respond to kindness and love and would demonstrate it's own cute little "soul". Not only that, but you could have one in any fur or eye color, length of tail, type of preferred food, etc. etc. adinfinitum. Once the DNA code's read and sequencable, which it almost is now, fully, they can and will be able to do ANYTHING they want to. Danged hoaxy scientists!
Then, oh then, on that glorious day, what WILL the IDTs say? What indeed!
Of course (I'll claim to have said it first, here, live, on C-D...) there WILL absolutely be a huge hue and cry against such things by the IDTs. (Remember what that stands for? Let me know if you don't. It has nothing to do with Dis-Intelligent Design).
After all, only Christians' mythic God can imbue a "soul" and life itself into a live organism, right? So even when they grow their own true monkey or mouse in their own house, or down in the Church basement, away from prying and inquisitive eyes, they'll then just yell that it's not REALLY alive; it's just some sort of trick! By the faker scientists! Yeah... that's it! Let's go with that!
You wanna bet this will never happen?How much, exactly do you wanna bet? In gold pieces please. Multiples of ten would be OK. How much? When they can now easily insert major chunks of synthesized DNA into existing cells that have, BTW, been killed first, as in "Dead", and then these cells happily come back to life on their own? Huzzah! What COULD be going on here? Basic, logical reproducable biochemistry? Nahhh...
Again, wanna bet they'll NEVER be able to creat a living reproducing organism in a test tube? NEVER? I'll take that bet, 'cause I know where science is quickly taking us. On the fast lane. Get on board or get run down!
Well, on the other hand, it's quite true; The intransigent, guiding the illiterate and obstinate, will lead them straight to hell. And they'll ALL have smiles on their faces!
Last edited by rifleman; 03-06-2009 at 02:24 PM..
Reason: typos, clarifications
Why are you still going on about Darwin? That's like comparing a Model T to a Ferrari, and saying about the Ferrari "There's no way that thing can go 200mph because this Model T can't do it!!"
Darwin only had the barest inkling of what evolution was about. We've advanced so far beyond him now that it's ludicrous that you keep bringing him up as the be-all and end-all of evolutionary theory.
I'm sorry, but we are not talking about the possible speed of a future car, we are talking about missing evidence. And this evidence should be found all over the planet. What rotten luck, everytime Evolution is about to happen, we just miss that in the fossil record. Billions of times it is happening, but some how, it just never makes it into the fossil record. We can go back according to the believers in Evolution, millions of years, and we see everything else that was going on, we just don't see Evolution. Well that's ok, because we can have National Geographic draw artistic pictures of what a transional might look like, if they could ever find one.
And then they will present those pictures as supporting evidence. You talk about believing in fairy tales. You believe in Darwins theory, yet now you try to distance yourself from part of his belief? And I understand why you do that, because Darwins belief invalidates your belief. And if Evolution was so far advanced, we would not be asking today where those transionals went to. Darwin stated, if his theory were true, they would be found. So I guess you only believe what supports the Evolution myth, and you must dismiss or ignore Darwins other statements.
I'm sorry, but we are not talking about the possible speed of a future car, we are talking about missing evidence. And this evidence should be found all over the planet. What rotten luck, everytime Evolution is about to happen, we just miss that in the fossil record. Billions of times it is happening, but some how, it just never makes it into the fossil record. We can go back according to the believers in Evolution, millions of years, and we see everything else that was going on, we just don't see Evolution. Well that's ok, because we can have National Geographic draw artistic pictures of what a transional might look like, if they could ever find one.
And then they will present those pictures as supporting evidence. You talk about believing in fairy tales. You believe in Darwins theory, yet now you try to distance yourself from part of his belief? And I understand why you do that, because Darwins belief invalidates your belief. And if Evolution was so far advanced, we would not be asking today where those transionals went to. Darwin stated, if his theory were true, they would be found. So I guess you only believe what supports the Evolution myth, and you must dismiss or ignore Darwins other statements.
Unbelievable!...The only ones asking where transitional fossils are fundies like yourself. They are easily seen by anyone else...I wonder how you can be so willfully blind.
And then they will present those pictures as supporting evidence. You talk about believing in fairy tales. You believe in Darwins theory, yet now you try to distance yourself from part of his belief? And I understand why you do that, because Darwins belief invalidates your belief. And if Evolution was so far advanced, we would not be asking today where those transionals went to. Darwin stated, if his theory were true, they would be found. So I guess you only believe what supports the Evolution myth, and you must dismiss or ignore Darwins other statements.
Is it hard to fit that much misinformation into your head?
Do you even understand what an analogy is? Darwin doesn't "invalidate" evolutionary theory any more than the analogous Model T invalidates the existence of the Ferrari. No, the Ferrari is no longer a Model T, but the very basic groundwork for both is the same. Improving on something and changing how we look at it is not dismissing the original, but merely growing in knowledge and understanding of how things work.
Also, you've been repeatedly told that there are a plethora of transitionals. We've shown you where and what they are, and yet...and yet...and yet...once again you ignore fact and evidence in favor of myth and fantasy and misinformation.
The reason Christians have come out so fervently against such genetic tinkering is that it proves, again incontrovertibly, that the relentless march of knowledge brought to us courtesy of the tools of science, can and will produce a living organism, soon, out of simple chemicals you can buy from The Fischer Scientific Catalog.
Imagine, like a Chia Pet™, your inquisitive child will be able, one day, to buy a complete "monkey kit", (no, not those old "sea monkey" kits.... that was just sad!). They could equally do a "Human" kit, but ethically, it might be a bit tough, to grow your own slaves, for instance...
But surely, say, a "kit" mouse. Which would, true to the species, then respond to kindness and love and would demonstrate it's own cute little "soul". Not only that, but you could have one in any fur or eye color, length of tail, type of preferred food, etc. etc. adinfinitum. Once the DNA code's read and sequencable, which it almost is now, fully, they can and will be able to do ANYTHING they want to. Danged hoaxy scientists!
Then, oh then, on that glorious day, what WILL the IDTs say? What indeed!
Of course (I'll claim to have said it first, here, live, on C-D...) there WILL absolutely be a huge hue and cry against such things by the IDTs. (Remember what that stands for? Let me know if you don't. It has nothing to do with Dis-Intelligent Design).
After all, only Christians' mythic God can imbue a "soul" and life itself into a live organism, right? So even when they grow their own true monkey or mouse in their own house, or down in the Church basement, away from prying and inquisitive eyes, they'll then just yell that it's not REALLY alive; it's just some sort of trick! By the faker scientists! Yeah... that's it! Let's go with that!
You wanna bet this will never happen?How much, exactly do you wanna bet? In gold pieces please. Multiples of ten would be OK. How much? When they can now easily insert major chunks of synthesized DNA into existing cells that have, BTW, been killed first, as in "Dead", and then these cells happily come back to life on their own? Huzzah! What COULD be going on here? Basic, logical reproducable biochemistry? Nahhh...
Again, wanna bet they'll NEVER be able to creat a living reproducing organism in a test tube? NEVER? I'll take that bet, 'cause I know where science is quickly taking us. On the fast lane. Get on board or get run down!
Well, on the other hand, it's quite true; The intransigent, guiding the illiterate and obstinate, will lead them straight to hell. And they'll ALL have smiles on their faces!
The Bible tells us in the time of the end, they will have a human kit so to speak. The Bible states that near the time of the end, the world will find itself in a perlious state, and a future leader will rise up who will have many of the answers to the worlds complex problems. In the beginning, the world will love this guy so much, that they will make a duplicate of him. And the Bible tells us, they will breath life into it, and it will both breath and speak.
However, they will discover this guy is not all that nice, and he will decide that he is such a great person, that he will proclaim himself a God to be worshipped. His duplicate, will then be set up in the new rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. And everyone on earth will be commanded to worship the duplicate, and the leader it was fashioned after. And the Bible also tells us, that to prove you are a worshipper of both of them, you will have to receive some sort of mark on your forhead, or right hand. And unless you have this mark, you will not be able to buy or sell. And in the end, anyone who refuse to receive this mark, will be put to death. And I can assure, I know where science is quickly taking us as well. And there will be a lot of people, who will not be smiling. Thats the thing about the Bible, such a story should have been proven false long ago, that is, if the Bible had been authored by simple men. Yet what do we see today? We see Jewish people who are now back in the land of Israel. They are in control of Jerusalem. And many of them, now want their Temple rebuilt on Mt. Moriah. And if you recall, it was the Bible that stated one of the last great wars on earth will be for the control of Jerusalem. We also see a world, heading into perilous times. Yes, a human kit will exist in our future, however, the Bible tells us it's results will not be human, but calls this future creation, the BEAST. And the reason for that, is unlike humans, the Beast will not have a soul.
Is it hard to fit that much misinformation into your head?
Do you even understand what an analogy is? Darwin doesn't "invalidate" evolutionary theory any more than the analogous Model T invalidates the existence of the Ferrari. No, the Ferrari is no longer a Model T, but the very basic groundwork for both is the same. Improving on something and changing how we look at it is not dismissing the original, but merely growing in knowledge and understanding of how things work.
Also, you've been repeatedly told that there are a plethora of transitionals. We've shown you where and what they are, and yet...and yet...and yet...once again you ignore fact and evidence in favor of myth and fantasy and misinformation.
You are truly a lost cause.
I have seen your transionals, and even your own people do not fully imbrace them as such. Only a few who hold a very bias position would believe them to be Transionals. The fact is, there should be no arguement by this time at all. Yet there are no transionals that are imbraced by all, and there should be, if the evidence was clear. Which it is not.
Sorry....don't see any mythology in it. Show me some, will you?
Start with genesis, talking snakes, donkeys and eagles. Noah's flood etc.....Most of the bible is based on tall tales, fiction and myth. If you don't see the mythology it is simply because you don't want to see it....Trust me, the bible is chock-o-block full of it.
Unbelievable!...The only ones asking where transitional fossils are fundies like yourself. They are easily seen by anyone else...I wonder how you can be so willfully blind.
What are you going to show me a skull and call it a transional? Why don't you show me one of those four foot land animals that became a whale. Show me evidence were the feet end, and the fins begin. Evolution is but speculation, and nothing more. And the artistic drawings by National Geographic is not evidence of a transional. Can you show me evidence of a real transional where all the believers in evolution fully agree they have a real transional?
Start with genesis, talking snakes, donkeys and eagles. Noah's flood etc.....Most of the bible is based on tall tales, fiction and myth. If you don't see the mythology it is simply because you don't want to see it....Trust me, the bible is chock-o-block full of it.
And do you believe a talking bird is a myth? Because if you never saw one, you would be one of the first people here saying such a thing is just a myth, and impossible. LOL
If the Bible is just based on fiction, why is it that historical discovery keeps showing us everything discovered is true?
Forgive me, but I will trust the Bibles truth over yours.
What are you going to show me a skull and call it a transional? Why don't you show me one of those four foot land animals that became a whale. Show me evidence were the feet end, and the fins begin. Evolution is but speculation, and nothing more. And the artistic drawings by National Geographic is not evidence of a transional. Can you show me evidence of a real transitional where all the believers in evolution fully agree they have a real transional?
I'm no geneticist or biologist, but there are those here who are, and their straightforward if wordy! (rifleman, I warned you!) points are pretty well presented. It's like going to a biology classroom. Ever been a teacher,rfm?
Actually, look at the skeleton of a seal. You can clearly see short fingers and claws (which still protrude) in the front "fins". They apparently evolved from land creatures, most likely big cats, back in to land/sea predators. Proof, as you requested. I wonder if you will look into it? How about that, hey? You asked, I provided.
I know, as does most anyone who did even basic biology, that you won't find a pre-human whale. You go back down the lines from today's humans, and you'll find all the right fossils. There are some missing of course. It's been rough out there in the world what with geologists and Christians and grave diggers rooting around. Did you expect that, over the course of millions of years, they would all be laid out neatly, wrapped up for your benefit?
Campbell, you didn't point out which of his points you don't agree with. Please do so It will tell us where you feel that evolution falls short.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
