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Hey MontanaGuy, do you mean something like the elephants who supposedly show what is commonly termed as human traits, you know grieving for their departed members and protecting their young and their memory, imagine how they would have evolved without humans here.
I do recognize that animals will fight to the death to protect their young and it's interesting to note that dogs are probably more loyal to their human masters than other humans (just ask June) but I don't see any of this as being anything remotely similar to religion. Animals definitely have emotions and they do greive for one another. Also, this is clearly a function of animals that are more intelligent and highly evolved. You would never see an insect wailing over the fact that a fellow ant has died. Even birds could care less if one of their fellows has dropped from the sky. Reptiles are also not noted for their emotional outbursts when one of their own drops in it's tracks. It seems to just be more intelligent mammals that exhibit this instinctual emotional response and it seems to be obvious that there is an awareness of loss and they suffer because of it.
Yes, we do have free will...which if other sentient life forms were created on another planet I would assume God would dignify them with free will as well.
So yes, the outcome could be very different. Looking at the original purpose for humans on earth, we were supposed to be living forever under God's rulership with peace and security throughout our human community. Adam and Eve disobeyed and that was taken away from us (temporarily).
On another planet, they could have....
1- Followed God and proved Satan wrong and they would have still be living under God's rulership in perfect conditions.
2- the first "pair" obeyed and then future generations disobeyed...leading to some other consequence.
The requirements would still be the same, exclusive devotion to God.
While I don't doubt that many people would feel the requirement would be exclusive devotion to God, it also makes me wonder in what ways that point would be gotten across. While I don't believe in the Bible or that the events that transpired in it are true, for the sake of argument I'll take the notion as far as saying "Let's assume that it is 100% true." So, with that, we'll say that there was an Adam and Eve-like set of individuals with a given set of laws and let's say they broke those laws just like we did. But, what's interesting is that if humans truly had free will and the Bible as we know it was an honest reflection of the word of God it would only be applicable in so far as the stories on Earth go. For example, would the Christian God need to flood the entire alien Earth and wipe everyone out? And if so, would he have enlisted someone to build an ark?
Would it have been necessary for Jesus to come to this alien planet and then die for their sins? Speaking of which, let's assume a Jesus-like character came to their planet, he would have been confronted with a different set of circumstances. For example, if Biblical history is, and again for the sake of argument, 100% accurate, than because the events that led to him preaching "Let he who has committed no sin cast the first stone" (I can't remember the wording exactly) that particular event happened on Earth under a unique set of circumstances ultimately leading to a prostitute about to be stoned to death. If the people involved with that situation - Jesus, the prostitute, and the stoners all had free will than every single one of their actions led to that specific turn of events and would be different on Earth than it would be on an alien planet. Even if the Christian God is 100% true and every situation in the Bible is 100% accurate it would only be applicable to the situations here on Earth based on the free will, movements, thoughts, ideologies, and histories of OUR human race. Therefore, even if the Christian God were to reveal himself to an alien planet, while the premise of Adam and Eve may be the same, the history following that would inevitably be vastly different and thus your Christian Bible and the alien Christian Bible would be so completely different EVEN if they were both inspired by the same God.
I just think that's an interesting perspective to think about. That's all.
I think many other planets are at higher dimensions and don't need to be rescued the way the Earth apparently did. Meaning, the people who live on those planets aren't in a third dimensional "physical" reality. They don't have wars, sex, paper money, conflicts and the general sense of "evil" that we have here. They have been able to rout it out, or maybe never succumbed to it in the first place. I have read that the whole Universe has been infected. Also, that some planets have "overcome" and gone to higher dimensions. Some planets like Venus have never had the problems that the Earth has and are in a permanent Golden Age.
While I don't doubt that many people would feel the requirement would be exclusive devotion to God, it also makes me wonder in what ways that point would be gotten across. While I don't believe in the Bible or that the events that transpired in it are true, for the sake of argument I'll take the notion as far as saying "Let's assume that it is 100% true." So, with that, we'll say that there was an Adam and Eve-like set of individuals with a given set of laws and let's say they broke those laws just like we did. But, what's interesting is that if humans truly had free will and the Bible as we know it was an honest reflection of the word of God it would only be applicable in so far as the stories on Earth go. For example, would the Christian God need to flood the entire alien Earth and wipe everyone out? And if so, would he have enlisted someone to build an ark?
Would it have been necessary for Jesus to come to this alien planet and then die for their sins? Speaking of which, let's assume a Jesus-like character came to their planet, he would have been confronted with a different set of circumstances. For example, if Biblical history is, and again for the sake of argument, 100% accurate, than because the events that led to him preaching "Let he who has committed no sin cast the first stone" (I can't remember the wording exactly) that particular event happened on Earth under a unique set of circumstances ultimately leading to a prostitute about to be stoned to death. If the people involved with that situation - Jesus, the prostitute, and the stoners all had free will than every single one of their actions led to that specific turn of events and would be different on Earth than it would be on an alien planet. Even if the Christian God is 100% true and every situation in the Bible is 100% accurate it would only be applicable to the situations here on Earth based on the free will, movements, thoughts, ideologies, and histories of OUR human race. Therefore, even if the Christian God were to reveal himself to an alien planet, while the premise of Adam and Eve may be the same, the history following that would inevitably be vastly different and thus your Christian Bible and the alien Christian Bible would be so completely different EVEN if they were both inspired by the same God.
I just think that's an interesting perspective to think about. That's all.
I always knew you were a pretty smart guy, and you are absolutely right! While the requirements of exclusive devotion to the supreme God would be the same, the events that unfold could be drastically different.
This highlights why dismissing Adam and Eve as allegorical is a slippery slope. So many...no actually ALL of the events in the bible were direct of indirect consequences of Adam and Eve's decision to disobey God. Once you start saying they are fictional, then the Christian bible and theology loses credibility.
If there are planets out there that have sentient beings like us do you think they have religions? What if religion were entirely different on another planet because the circumstances and events unfolded differently?
religions may be widely and wildly different, but they all seek to tell the same story, and they all point to the same place.....the creation of the universe and life's place in it
of course they have "religion"! there has never been a society or culture anywhere anytime anyplace without spiritual expression (what some call "religion")
we are spiritual beings therefore we always seek to know and understand our core
all life of every form, all of everything of any form, springs from spiritual substance and therefore expresses spiritually in some way shape or form
nowhere can life escape being spiritual! (it's just funny to see the contortions people put themselves through trying to evade and avoid and escape their very essence!)
Actually, C.S. Lewis dealt with exactly this scenario (including the temptation of Adam and Eve) in one of the books of his "Space Trilogy." IIRC, it was Perelandra, but can't remember for sure, it's been 20+ years since I read it.
It's interesting to speculate about. But that's all it can be--speculation.
I think God's nature would remain the same, but His interaction with another created race could look very different, based on different events. In fact, from Scripture we do see that He relates to another created race (Angels--and by extension demons) differently than how He relates to humankind.
I have a lot of friends in high places, but I should not brag. Do your own homework, maybe you have friends on Venus too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy
catrinac wrote:
I wasn't aware of that fact, do you have friends there?
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) but I don't see any of this as being anything remotely similar to religion. Animals definitely have emotions and they do greive for one another. Also, this is clearly a function of animals that are more intelligent and highly evolved. You would never see an insect wailing over the fact that a fellow ant has died. Even birds could care less if one of their fellows has dropped from the sky. Reptiles are also not noted for their emotional outbursts when one of their own drops in it's tracks. It seems to just be more intelligent mammals that exhibit this instinctual emotional response and it seems to be obvious that there is an awareness of loss and they suffer because of it.
).
skepticism has zero impact on me
