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I'm just thrilled to see that, after reading this forum, that the United States is "a nation where Christians AND OTHERS live" NOT "a CHRISTIAN nation"... I'm basically a Secular Humanist/Agnostic. I believe "Believe what ya want, just don't push it on me". And I, too, have noticed that ONLY in the U.S. does one's religion come up in conversation...
I have numerous times. Jim Gaffigan has a great bit on "I'd like to talk to you about Jesus". When I tell the people that I'm a practicing Lutheran, apparently it isn't enough. It has happened in the workplace, which is pretty off-putting. One day, I found a tract on the windshield of my car that stated "What do you have to do to go to Hell?" The inside was cleverly blank ("nothing"). Apparently, hell is located in the Blue Cross, Blue Shield of North Dakota parking lot--so I'd avoid parking there if I were you. Ironically, I probably had the only car with a church bulletin on the dashboard. Then again, it was a Saab, so maybe it inferred that Saab ownership is hell. Considering the cost of parts, I tend to agree.
On the other hand, my wife has an acquaintance who, when we were first introduced, proceeded to give my then fiance and me nothing but a hard time for my being a theist (she found out because we were going to be married in a Lutheran church). On other occasions, I've had to deal with what I call "Evangelistic Atheists", which I really don't understand at all.
I only get hostile about it when I have to keep my mouth shut tightly around people who are overly zealous, but any time I go into a conversation with someone about religion and the like, they get really offended about it and accuse me of being angry...
what the hell happen between separation between church and state
I am afraid Bush happened. It is an issue we need to correct. All the religious right wants it, but I think they need to look around at life in religious based governments. Do you want to live as they do in Iran?
The way I vote this year will be based on two basic things. Preventing a right wing Supreme Court and getting religion back out of government.
I am not hostile toward religion but I have had negative experiences with some so called Christians who use their religion to justify themselves and to condemn others. I have noted a negative correlation between fundementalist Christians and living the life that Jesus taught us to live.....many forget all about the love and jump immediately back to the old testiment list of abominations and then into Revelations and their version of the end times. They skip over the sermon on the mount, loving their neighbor as themselves and the parable of The Good Samaratan, and get lost in the condemnations and judgements and wrath, rather than seeing an oppurtunity to serve Jesus by serving the homeless, the immigrant, the poor.
For the majority of self called "Christians" whom I have met, their religion has little influence on the way they live their lives....
But as I said, their poor example hasnt made me hostile to religion....just their version of it.
I can care less who believes what, it's their choices as long as their believes not pushed on anyone else. Like those "door-to-door" JWs, luckily, they stopped coming after meeting my 2 german shepherds.
Back in college, i had a "friend" who, for some magic reason, re-discovered god and all she could talk about it is bible and how i need to read it and understand it, blah blah. Besides that, she was a nice person, but her religious believes stood between me and her, we're no longer friends....
To be honest until I came to this forum I was a lot more tolerant and open towards Christianity but some of the sanctimonious drivel and moralising tone of some posters has really stretched my tolerance levels to the very limit.
I grew up surroudned by people of various faiths and Christian denominations and my personal experiences were on the whole always pretty positive.
I spent my entire school years in Catholic schools ( boarding ) and never really had anything negative happen to me. The Nuns and Priests were all pretty good eggs, and most were actually shining beacon of tolerance and compassion .
My travels around the US where I spent 3 years taught me about fundamentalism and that there were some really odd people out there with very strange ideas. Travelling around the South was a real eye opener and I started to see that Christianity could have some complete nutters as followers.
But this forum has truly shocked me. I have never encountered such extremism of thought ( lack thereof to be honest as thinking does not come into it sadly for those poor deluded souls) and their judgemental, extreme views have turned me against a proportion of "Christians" who believe themselves so superior to others and will point the finger of immorality , bible thumping and scripture quoting.
It has reinforced my position that religion truly is the opium of the people and that it is dangerous as well as offensive in many cases.
It has also made me extremely grateful to live in Europe where secularism is the norm and Christianity is of the more normal kind....
I am still utterly baffled by how many people in the US are creationists and deny evolution. Science and intellectual discourse seem to be a long way from some posters minds and I find it bemusing as well as a bit creepy.
I have never once met a creationist in Europe and should any politician admit to it publicly here, he would be decried as being shall we say less than .... intelligent and lampooned and mocked in all the papers. Nobody would vote for him.
I guess the fact that creationism and fundamentalism seem so prevalent in many parts of the US has shocked me and I realise that my tolerance is just dwindling. Very , very quickly.
I hate hypocrisy and some Christians exhibit the worst kind of it. They point their little sanctimonious fingers at many people whilst exhibiting as little compassion or kindness as is humanly possible.
Hypocrisy brings the worst out in me and I want to scream and shout " J'accuse" to all those who feel able to treat others like "sinners" when their own behaviour is less of a shining beacon and more of a damp squib .
Self righteousness is not an attractive nor acceptable trait in those who self label themselves followers of Christ.
I have a deep admiration for people like the Quakers who to me are as close to being Christians as you can ever hope to meet. Same with the Amish in many respect , people who truly live their lives as their faith dictates.
If faith brings people succour and comfort and makes them feel better then I have no problem with that. As long as their behaviour, words and actions do match up to the "hype".
Otherwise I want them to get off their high horses and start rejoining the human race.
It seems to me that people forget that only their God has the right to judge. Not them.
I also find it quite sad to see how divided most Christians are when Christ should be uniting them. Yet another proof that they created God in their own image not the other way around.
Don't really like some aspects of your Church, heck let's just invent one which fits you better. One day we may have "made to measure" religion for a better fit....
And the intolerance and mockery from some quarters directed at other denominations/faiths would be risible if it wasn't so darn tragic. I mean of course their god is the right one but their neighbour /work colleague's one is either a false idol or just plain stupid.
As far as I am concerned all religions are created equal. Whether you follow Christ, Allah , Yaweh, the Easter Bunny, Fairies, Trolls, Forest Spirits, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster there is no evidence for any of them and in the eyes of science all are about as likely.
What makes one acceptable and another ludicrous. If you expect respect for your own religion then have a modicum of consistency and apply the same principle to others too.
As far as I am concerned all religions are created equal. Whether you follow Christ, Allah , Yaweh, the Easter Bunny, Fairies, Trolls, Forest Spirits, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster there is no evidence for any of them and in the eyes of science all are about as likely.
Mooseketeer, I loved your entire post, but especially the above sentence. I also appreciated hearing your take on the role of religion in America.
Over the past 7 years we have experienced how truly "messed-up" a non-thinking self proclaimed born-again Christian can be and the hundreds of thousands dead and the irrepairable damage to the planet stand as grim witness to the disaster of "Faith Based" Government.
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I'm basically a Secular Humanist/Agnostic. I believe "Believe what ya want, just don't push it on me". And I, too, have noticed that ONLY in the U.S. does one's religion come up in conversation...
