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For those who are Christians...I believe bad times are ahead as everything Christians believe in is scoffed at or disbelieved by more and more people. It seems there are more "spritual people"(-those opposed to any form of authoritative religion, though they'll support the authoritative morons in Washington which I still don't understand) or atheists speaking out and though it may not be the current state of things, there will be violence against those who believe in religion in the future. Not trying to scare you, but I see things really heading down hill for those who literally try to live as God instructs (and for the "liberal" Christians go ahead and scoff and say they're closed-minded, etc.) From a Christian perspective however this is something that is expected as can be found in the bible, so perhaps this is all part of God's ultimate plan.
For those who hate everything about religion (or at least what could be stated as those who try to live with God in their life rather than merely a part of their life)...I believe "progressivism" is finally coming into the mainstream. Abortion is now generally accepted, gay marriage will be accepted in the near future, prayer in schools has been out for awhile, traditional marriage is anything but, anything to do with God is slowly fading out of society, and I believe more and more traditionalism or conservatism will be in the minority. This is ultimately what many want...they want "intelligent" people who focus more on convenience and the better for mankind (unless they are those evil people who try to live by God's outdated, fascist, sexist, dark aged laws as you may say.)
At least this is how I see it interpreted from both sides of the fence but I'm just stating my opinion here.
things like the end of slavery, end of prohibition, womens' suffrage, civil rights etc come to mind.
What I don't understand is how gay marriage in anyway affects anybody elses salvation.. The U.S. government can only make laws with respect to what happens here in the United States.. not what happens in heaven (or any other enlightened place). So if you believe gays don't go to heaven then a US law isn't gonna make a bit of difference..
I have a feeling gay marriage will have about as much impact on everybody's lives as passing a law that says you can't take tags off a mattress.
I just see progressivism as being more tolerant of those different from myself.
Yes, heaven forbid other views actually get equal footing with Christianity in our glorious and "FREE" society. Sorry but Christians have had a free ride at the front of the bus for far too long. It's time for some balance.
And how dare you say society isn't living by "God's rules". Who's God? Your God is no better than any other. And face it, most of what you call "Christian morals" are morals that most people already possess, whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or Atheist. Christians didn't invent those morals and neither did any god. They were developed by MANKIND over centuries of social evolution (yes I said the E word!) and reform.
As for prayer being taken out of schools - that's because according to the laws of this land it never belonged there in the first place. Why should people of diverse beliefs be subjected to your religion's prayers? Would you like it if school had to stop everyday and listen to an Imam recite prayers to Allah? I don't think so. School prayer was a Christian incursion that was corrected just as slavery, women's suffrage, racial segregation and soon gay rights will be.
NO ONE is stopping YOU from living as YOUR god instructs you to. That's a tired old line and a lie. Live your life as you wish but keep your religion and beliefs where they belong - in your home and your church. NOT in our face, and in our schools and government.
Trust me, society isn't going to go fall apart without your "values" guiding and controlling of every aspect of our lives. We'll actually get to IMPROVE OURSELVES AND HUMANITY for the first time in centuries.
If science and reason had not been inhibited by your religion's repressive stranglehold, then we'd probably have cures for most disease, clean energy and colonies on Mars by now.
Personally I don't want anyone to be discriminated against and that includes Christians. Just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I have any ill will towards them. In America I really don't see anything changing for a long time. The majority of Americans are Christians and our small population of atheists are mostly ignored or looked down upon by the rest of society.
I believe "progressivism" is finally coming into the mainstream. Abortion is now generally accepted, gay marriage will be accepted in the near future, prayer in schools has been out for awhile, traditional marriage is anything but, anything to do with God is slowly fading out of society, and I believe more and more traditionalism or conservatism will be in the minority.
I agree. And it makes me proud to be an American. I will do everything in my power to support and promote "progressivism" in my country.
This is not meant to be an inflammatory comment, ans many end up being on this board...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tx_spirit
One thing I can see happening...
For those who are Christians...I believe bad times are ahead as everything Christians believe in is scoffed at or disbelieved by more and more people.I do not think that EVERYTHING Christians believed in is scoffed at or disbelieved. As a matter of fact, I think that most people will agree that the Bible does actually contain some history. Furthermore, people are rude and disrespectful. It is not just Christians who are under scrutiny for their religion. It might appear that way because many people in the US are Christian. It seems there are more "spritual people"(-those opposed to any form of authoritative religion, though they'll support the authoritative morons in Washington which I still don't understand) by "spiritual people" are you referring to agnostics? aetheists? buddhists? people against organized religion? who do not believe in anything higher than them?... ALSO who says that they support the government? Many people follow the law because they don't want to go to jail and following the law creates a comfortable environment in which the masses can feel comfortable and thrive.or atheists speaking out most atheists are content to "be and let be" and feel compelled to say something ONLY when prodded to do so- we do not go door to door trying to "witness" people to our "faith"- or lack there of and though it may not be the current state of things, there will be violence against those who believe in religion in the futurethere have been so many religious wars through history and they still are going on today- I've always wondered why it's okay to kill for religion- if you kill all of the other side and they kill all of your side, does anybody really win?. Not trying to scare you, but I see things really heading down hill for those who literally try to live as God instructs Depending on your religion, god (or god by any other name) may instruct differently- different cultures emphasize different things in different orders of importance. (and for the "liberal" Christians go ahead and scoff and say they're closed-minded, etc.) From a Christian perspective however this is something that is expected as can be found in the bible, so perhaps this is all part of God's ultimate plan.The Bible is an interesting collection of work. It also documents some of history- with story telling of course, as ALL early literary works were primarily stories handed down through oral story-telling
For those who hate everything about religion (or at least what could be stated as those who try to live with God in their life rather than merely a part of their life)...I believe "progressivism" is finally coming into the mainstreamhasn't progressivism always been a part of the mainstream? If we want to go waaaaaaaay back in time, you would see that without "progressive" ideas, the United States would not be it's own country and you would not have the freedom to choose your religion. Abortion is now generally accepted, gay marriage will be accepted in the near future, prayer in schools has been out for awhile instead, many schools take a "moment of silence" in the mornings- if you want to pray, then pray. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut and reflect or try to remember everything you learned for the test that day. ALSO...many high schools have religious groups/clubs that have morning prayer before school , traditional marriage is anything butthis is primarily due to the fact that society is evolving and "traditional" marriage (at least in my mind) ended when people stopped respecting their peers and their companions and started rushing into marriage , anything to do with God is slowly fading out of societyNot to pick on people...but have you ever been to Loudoun, TN? Beautiful city, more churches than I've ever seen in one place, close to each other too...Also, the founding fathers of this country wanted church and state separated for a reason- they did not want to be persecuted for their beliefs, and I believe more and more traditionalism or conservatism will be in the minority. This is ultimately what many want...they want "intelligent" people who focus more on convenience and the better for mankindIf intelligent is in quotes, "better" should be as well. Also, I tend to believe that not everything that is convenient is good for you- fast food is horrible for your body. Escalators and moving walkways, while convenient, have reduced teh number of calories that would normally be burned. And since everyone who actually has some brains is aware that most people have different ideas of what would be best for mankind (look at the last election for crying out loud), I also believe that most people with brains do NOT do was is best for mankind- because humans tend to be very self-centered and they want what will profit them the most (generally speaking, of course) (unless they are those evil people who try to live by God's outdated, fascist, sexist, dark aged laws as you may say.) Once again, this depends on what "god" you are referring to. Also from what religion.
At least this is how I see it interpreted from both sides of the fence but I'm just stating my opinion here.
I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it. I'm of the "be and let be" group of aetheists, based on my own experiences, thoughts, and research. I find it interesting that you would consider this to be from "both sides of the fence" because it fails to take into account the aetheist's opinion as well as any other religion's opinion AND it makes a lot of broad generalizations, many of which I do not see any factual support for. It is interesting (and thought provoking) that you believe that there will be a violent rebellion of sorts and Christians. And although there may be- it likely will not be in this country. This country is still primarily christian, perhaps just not the same branch of chrisitianity as you. Also...just because people's political opinions do not match yours does NOT mean that they are of a different religion- I'm sure people of ALL faiths support washington (and define support- because last time I checked, the majority of the population did not support the "war" in Iraq nor Bush's presidency or the decisions made by members of his cabinet.
Religious wars are started by a lack of tolerance/acceptance of other faiths. They are also created by a lack of respect for other people. I do not attempt to argue that my beliefs are better or worse than any other person's- it is the other person's right to believe as they want. I may not agree with it, but that is their right. Every person is entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"- this includes the liberty to believe what you want and to pursue that if it makes you happy. I have a few cousins who live (literally) by the "word of god"- and they are some of the nicest people I know- and they don't try to push their beliefs on me, since they know where I stand. I also have a few neighbors who live (supposedly) by the word of god- and attempt to "witness" me everytime we run into each other, despite my polite attempts to inform them that I am not interested. If you have gotten the idea that christianity is nearing its end, you are very very badly mistaken my friend. You will not see the end of christianity in your lifetime or your children's- and violence or not, people will still believe what they want to believe.
I'd have to agree with Ranj Ramak. Also, bad times ahead for Christians. No. Not in the present time For one, seventy five percent of Americans are Christians. Many of which are fundies and conservatives Look at the laws and reforms that are being put into place. There's a reason gay marriage is banned, stem cell research is illegal and proper sex ed. is kept out of the public schools. Another thing, I find it interesting that fundies want to try and get ID into public school, although they don't want science taught in their churches. America lives in a country where the overwhelming majority are Christians and many others hold some form of religious belief.. There's no reason to think that some tragedy is going to befall the Christians of America.
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not from both sides of the fence
