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Is Faith just "wishing there was a god?"
Do some fear being alone in the universe so much, they have to believe?
Wouldn't the logical question be...if there was a god, wouldn't we know it by now? I am talking proof as really seeing God or evidence of him, not sunsets, puppy dogs, or feelings in someone's heart.
Faith is very much linked with Hope, so maybe Faith is pretending, while Hope is wishing?
I have not bothered to read the other posts! But I will state thay I was raised catholic and grew away from the religion for awhile and while I attend mass every once in a while I believe in God! This has not been obtained by the bible studies, cactchism, confirmation or so forth! It was gained in moments of need and awareness. I realized that God is almight yet he does not lead by a strict hand. He loves his children and has faith in them therefore he allows them time to come to him. He does have a plan laid out for each and everyone us yet he allows us the freedom of of choice, he never deserts us, he has left us clues as how to get back to him it us up to us to find him. We find him if we look for him. Point blank end of story...
I don't think that having faith means that you just wish there was a God. I have no doubt that the word "faith" has many different definitions, but used in this context, I see only one definition that is suitable. That would be:
"Believing in something without evidence."
I find that to actually be different than wishing. Because wishing implies that you know something has not happened or does not exist but you yen for it to do so.
Faith, in this sense, does not acknowledge a lack of evidence, but rather an answer for when questioned on things that are seemingly unadherent to the philosophy at hand.
"Why doesn't God heal amputees?" is normally followed up with something like this:
"I cannot speak for God as to why he does or does not heal amputees, but I can tell you that I have faith that when we are in heaven we will be perfect."
Typically, this is followed up by several Bible verses, which in themselves, have not yet proven to be true. It's circular rationale used to justify the faith but I would hardly call it wishing. Faith is an acknowledgement that considers abandoning evidentiary claims for the benefit of the person. In other words, you and I might have faith that when we go through a green light, all intersecting traffic will adhere to their respective red light. As we well know, this is indeed misplaced faith (given the sheer number of people who die in car accidents each year), but it's faith that we use to get from point A to point B each and every day.
Some people, like the traffic lights, use God to get from point A to point B in their lives. I'd say that it works for many. But, when God comes barreling through that red light and T-bones them at an intersection it is as if they get up, brush it off, and realize that it wasn't God who ran the red light, but it must have been something they did wrong in accelerating too fast through the green light.
To put that into context, it's almost like they wished they didn't have to have faith in the light. Or, should I say, they wished for the evidence that can currently only be undermined with faith.
I have no doubt that the word "faith" has many different definitions, but used in this context, I see only one definition that is suitable. That would be:
"Believing in something without evidence."
For what it's worth coming from the likes of June, I'm not sure that I agree with the above.
I think there is a vast distinction between "faith" and actual "belief." I also think "evidence" as an absolutely contraindicated notion or concept, having little whatsoever to do with actual "faith."
I suspect that for the believer, (and I'm goin' out on a limb here!) faith comes about more as a response to something perceived. --And while perceptions can be extremely arbitrary, subjective entities, nonetheless I think that in the realm of "faith" that there exist certain commonalities. (Certain commonalities irregardless of one's "denomination" or "religion.") Faith, to my mind, precludes any definitive arrival at a destination defined as "proven," or as implying hardcore "evidence."
Faith, I think, is more open ended. More fluid. It's somewhat nebulous. It implies both the perception of, and response to...Thus, perhaps for the believer, it is a reaction to...
Wishing there was a God in my mind strikes me as somehow being different. I guess I say this due to the fact that it would appear to be more based on a need. (June wishes that she would wake up tomorrow morning and look like Angelina Jolie, but I don't think that's gunna happen. Darn.) --But I am not really able to believe that for believers faith is only wish fulfillment and/or purely need based.
--At least not authentic faith.
Obviously, June hasn't a clue what in God's name she just wrote, but somehow, for some reason, she wrote it. Just idyll ramblings, musings...
I suppose for June, it would mean hearing the music, and simply validating the notes...I don't know...
For what it's worth coming from the likes of June, I'm not sure that I agree with the above.
I think there is a vast distinction between "faith" and actual "belief." I also think "evidence" as an absolutely contraindicated notion or concept, having little whatsoever to do with actual "faith."
I suspect that for the believer, (and I'm goin' out on a limb here!) faith comes about more as a response to something perceived. --And while perceptions can be extremely arbitrary, subjective entities, nonetheless I think that in the realm of "faith" that there exist certain commonalities. (Certain commonalities irregardless of one's "denomination" or "religion.") Faith, to my mind, precludes any definitive arrival at a destination defined as "proven," or as implying hardcore "evidence."
Ok, perhaps you and I disagree on what evidence implies. Is perception really evidence of existence even if it's a common perception? I don't think so.
For centuries, man thought that the sun revolved around the Earth. The perception that this is true certainly seems overwhelming. Go outside at any two points in the day and the sun will seemingly be moving in an arc around the Earth. It certainly does look like the sun is moving around the Earth but it is not. It's a matter of perspective but the real, true, observable, and empirical evidence (scientific, if you will) proves that the Earth moves around the sun. It is merely an illusion based on a common perspective or perception that the sun would seem to move around the Earth.
So, to me, it seems that we could have faith that the sun revolves around the Earth. We could have faith that things appear to be "designed" because of a "designer". We could have faith in any number of things. However, the evidence does not necessarily point to what common perception always dictates.
Henceforth, to me, having faith that things appear in such a way does not mean that they are; regardless of how much we'd like to think so, without evidence it is merely conjecture and.... wishful thinking.
I don't think that having faith means that you just wish there was a God. I have no doubt that the word "faith" has many different definitions, but used in this context, I see only one definition that is suitable. That would be:
My answer to the OP's original question is "No". I believe in God by faith that He IS, and that He is a rewarder of all that obey Him.
Even if I did not know the bible I would believe there is a God.
Psalm 19:1 " The heavens are telling of the glory of God; and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands." NASB
" The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the works of His hands." NIV
As far as the question of if there was a God, wouldn't we know by now....I've asked something similar on here, only in reverse. In other words, if God was just created by man (what, maybe 10,000 years ago or so?), wouldn't we (humans) have figured out by now that there really isn't a God and wouldn't we have stopped believing in him (at least the majority of mankind) by now?
Not really. The reason the Christian god has stayed around is because the religious change the concept of god with the times. When you do that, a lot of the people won't question it. Back in the Greek times, people would say lightning, droughts, tidal waves, etc, were all caused by their gods. Science proved otherwise. That takes the credibility away from the gods they believed in back then. The difference here is that the religious change all the time so that their beliefs are compatible with what we know to be true in modern times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA
But there is evidence that you choose to ignore, as has been said on here many times by myself and other Christians.
I highly doubt it. We as skeptics question everything and only believe what can be proven. Religious texts do not count because a book is not evidence of itself. That would be like me telling you a science fiction story actually happened because it's printed in a book. This evidence you speak of doesn't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA
And I'm really getting tired of you atheists completely discounting the very real and personal relationship that Christians have with God and this attitude that because you can't wrap your mind around it and it can't be explained scientifically, it surely must be all in our heads. Just because you haven't experienced it yourself doesn't mean it isn't so.
As a former Christian myself, I can tell you that when you look at it from an outsider's point of view, it is nothing more than a delusion. It's definitely all in your head.
I can tell you that when you look at it from an outsider's point of view, it is nothing more than a delusion. It's definitely all in your head.
I agree. A scientist who can only prove his hypothesis in theory has faith that he is right. Until his hypothesis can be proven in reality it stays a theory, but once it is proven the theory becomes (accepted) knowledge.
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What Does Faith Mean?
--But I am not really able to believe that for believers faith is only wish fulfillment and/or purely need based.
