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Glad to know that the bible is not the word of god.
That does NOT mean it doesn't CONTAIN inspirations from God, phet. As you know, I believe the very consciousness of God is within us and able to influence those of us who are receptive.
That does NOT mean it doesn't CONTAIN inspirations from God, phet. As you know, I believe the very consciousness of God is within us and able to influence those of us who are receptive.
As Ronald Reagan said, "Well, there he goes again"...trying to have it both ways. That's so scientific.
Being the REASON you or anything else exists is about as completely Godlike as it gets. What the hell else would be God?
Maybe there is no reason for our existence. At least no guided reason. We exist because the properties of the universe allow it. Existence simply is. If that is the case, there is no reason to call it god, we can simply call it existence. Or the universe.
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Your mention of the universe tempts the Mods to delete this post.
Not really. The forum rules prohibit science based discussions, not the mention of a factual thing.
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Our Reality (which includes the universe/multiverse) is a unified consciousness field.
That is an unproven assertion.
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You are unwilling to believe that the attribute we possess exists in the Reality that is responsible for our existence and everything else? That is less rational than the "something from nothing" nonsense.
You mean consciousness? Sure. There is no reason why the entirety of something possesses the characteristics of every component part.
I am conscious, I see no evidence that the earthly biosphere around me is independently conscious.
An engine can burn fuel during the process of combustion. A car can not burn fuel, only its component engine can. We can remove the engine from a car, and it is still a car, albeit with less functionality. We could remove out consciousness from the universe in an act of self-destruction, and the universe would still exist, it would exist without us. Does that mean it loses the aspect of humanity? Does the universe possess that aspect now, or does it merely contain it?
Where in the bible does it say that plants and fish were "evil"...or that they were destroyed by the flood?
Nothing about fish being destroyed, since fish don't live on dry land. And, from I remember about 'science', plants don't have "nostrils".
Knock it off.
In typical x-tian fashion, you cherry-picked a verse while ignoring others.
At 6:7 your evil god-thing says, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for I regret that I have made them."
There are many plants, chief among them vines, that creep.
Note your god-thing contradicts himself. He says the fowls of the air are evil and corrupt, and then says to save clean and unclean pairs of fowls.
Did those birds do right in the eyes of Yahweh? How? Did they have a little altar set up in their nests or something?
How exactly do birds do ritual sacrifices? Do they like grip a chunk of goat by their dorsal guiding feathers?
Twice your evil god-thing says at 6:11 and then again at 6:12 that the "entire Earth" was corrupt and all flesh on Earth was corrupt.
Then again at 6:13 your evil god-thing says all flesh on Earth is corrupt and violent. That includes fish.
Your evil god-thing even says the Earth itself is entirely corrupt.
Apparently, your evil god-thing thinks limestone rocks are corrupt and evil and violent somehow.
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Originally Posted by Mink57
Moses laid down the law...
It's accepted fact that X-Moses didn't write a single word.
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Originally Posted by Mink57
We may not have found evidence for the biblical flood YET, ...
That's entirely 100% your fault, actually.
You have to accept 100% total responsibility for that.
There is no god. The morons who translated the King Joke Vision were not in contact with any god-thing or guided by any god-thing or filled with the Holy Flatulence.
Because, if there really was a god-thing and the morons at the King Joke Vision were really connected to this god-thing, they would have correctly translated the Sumerian word that appears in the Hebrew text as "deluge" instead of incorrectly translating it as "flood."
Sorry, this is Classical Biblical Hebrew, not Modern English.
In Modern English, "flood" and "deluge" might be synonymous, but that is not true in Classical Biblical Hebrew or any language in the Ancient Near East.
The languages of the Ancient Near East were incredibly precise in the meanings of their words, because all those languages are connotial.
So, how stupid are the morons at the King Joke Vision not to understand that?
That's why there are five different verbs in Classical Biblical Hebrew to express "forget." Here are three as an example:
I forgot about my garden. My pizza burned because I forgot and left it in the oven too long. I forgot your name.
It's permissible in Modern English to use "forget" for all three, but not in Classical Biblical Hebrew.
Those are three different verbs, because they connote three different ideas/thoughts/actions: I intentionally neglected my garden. I unintentionally neglected my pizza. And I cannot remember your name.
Again, how daft are the imbeciles at the King Joke Vision that they don't get it?
The morons at the King Joke Vision incorrectly rendered a Psalm as "let my right hand forget her cunning" for five freaking centuries before they finally figured out they were translating it wrong.
And they still couldn't figure it out. Someone else had to point it out to them. Then they figured it out.
There really is a huge difference between "deluge" and "flood" and they are not synonymous and when you all figure that out and start translating the text correctly, perhaps people might actually take you seriously.
Fortunately for you, someone people have already figured it out. Not x-tians, but people who are much smarter than x-tians.
Not all ancient people had flood myths and many of the flood myths described an entirely different kind of myth.
There are very valid reasons why that's true.
First, there was never a flood, but there was a deluge.
It's not just semantics. There are very real linguistic and literal differences between the two words.
The Sumerian word in the Hebrew text means "deluge." It does not mean "flood"; it has never meant "flood"; and it will never mean "flood". The fact that the imbeciles at the King Joke Vision incorrectly translated it --and so too all the idiots following -- does not alter the fact that it has meant and will always mean "deluge."
Precisely because it was a deluge and not a flood, not every part of Earth would have been affected.
Indigenous peoples in northeastern Siberia and the Pacific Northwest (including Alaska, Canada and continental US) report a flaming rock, flaming arrow, green rock, green arrow, green star, flaming star and many other such representations.
Naturally.
We know what comets and asteroids are, but they didn't. They would have described it in the only way they knew how. If your particular band of people had bows and arrows or spears, you'd probably describe it as a flaming arrow, but if not, you'd probably describe it as a flaming star or rock.
Why don't people in other parts mention that?
Why would they?
The Earth is a spheroid. If you live in the Middle East or India, you can't see the skies over the Bering Straits.
The evidence suggests a celestial object -- a comet or asteroid -- entered in low-orbit (oblique) trajectory, traversed the area of the Bering Straits moving in a southeasterly direction where it impacted in close proximity to the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet causing its near total destruction.
In addition to the rapid rise in sea levels caused by the sudden melting of several TRILLION cubic tons of ice, there would be a huge tsunami racing across the Pacific/Indian Oceans, but not the Atlantic.
It took about 4,000 years for the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet to start to reform, which it did circa 6,000 BCE.
That's why it's only 8,000 years old.
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Originally Posted by badlander
One first nations people living on Vancouver Island that modern researchers were able to trace to a tsunami from Japan in the 1600s.
Yes, that's called Confirmation Bias.
We see that with Plato. Numerous attempts at trying to crow-bar Santorini into Atlantis.
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Originally Posted by badlander
It only means that our scientific knowledge which is the same if you are religious or not, makes it difficult to accept the Bible as totally literal
Look at the evolution of the story.
In the original Deluge Story, you have an event of celestial origin that the gods are powerless to stop.
Several thousand years later, as theological thought changes, that morphs into an event of celestial origin that the gods refused to stop.
See the difference?
Then, several centuries later, theological thought shifts again to an event of celestial origin the gods refused to stop in order to punish humans.
See?
When the original Deluge Story was written, there were no gods. There were mortal beings with great power, but not enough power to stop the Deluge. That was a time of polytheism.
Later, as thought evolves, those beings are elevated to god-status and imbued with many other attributes and abilities, so the idea that powerful gods couldn't stop the event doesn't really work. You have to change the story to the gods let it happen. This is the era of henotheism.
Later as groups shift to monolatry, the reason gods exist is to reward or punish, and so the Deluge is a method of punishment, and that was particularly true for the Hebrews.
First, there was never a flood, but there was a deluge.
It's not just semantics. There are very real linguistic and literal differences between the two words.
The Sumerian word in the Hebrew text means "deluge." It does not mean "flood"; it has never meant "flood"; and it will never mean "flood". The fact that the imbeciles at the King Joke Vision incorrectly translated it --and so too all the idiots following -- does not alter the fact that it has meant and will always mean "deluge."
Precisely because it was a deluge and not a flood, not every part of Earth would have been affected.
Indigenous peoples in northeastern Siberia and the Pacific Northwest (including Alaska, Canada and continental US) report a flaming rock, flaming arrow, green rock, green arrow, green star, flaming star and many other such representations.
Naturally.
We know what comets and asteroids are, but they didn't. They would have described it in the only way they knew how. If your particular band of people had bows and arrows or spears, you'd probably describe it as a flaming arrow, but if not, you'd probably describe it as a flaming star or rock.
Why don't people in other parts mention that?
Why would they?
The Earth is a spheroid. If you live in the Middle East or India, you can't see the skies over the Bering Straits.
The evidence suggests a celestial object -- a comet or asteroid -- entered in low-orbit (oblique) trajectory, traversed the area of the Bering Straits moving in a southeasterly direction where it impacted in close proximity to the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet causing its near total destruction.
In addition to the rapid rise in sea levels caused by the sudden melting of several TRILLION cubic tons of ice, there would be a huge tsunami racing across the Pacific/Indian Oceans, but not the Atlantic.
It took about 4,000 years for the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet to start to reform, which it did circa 6,000 BCE.
That's why it's only 8,000 years old.
Yes, that's called Confirmation Bias.
We see that with Plato. Numerous attempts at trying to crow-bar Santorini into Atlantis.
Look at the evolution of the story.
In the original Deluge Story, you have an event of celestial origin that the gods are powerless to stop.
Several thousand years later, as theological thought changes, that morphs into an event of celestial origin that the gods refused to stop.
See the difference?
Then, several centuries later, theological thought shifts again to an event of celestial origin the gods refused to stop in order to punish humans.
See?
When the original Deluge Story was written, there were no gods. There were mortal beings with great power, but not enough power to stop the Deluge. That was a time of polytheism.
Later, as thought evolves, those beings are elevated to god-status and imbued with many other attributes and abilities, so the idea that powerful gods couldn't stop the event doesn't really work. You have to change the story to the gods let it happen. This is the era of henotheism.
Later as groups shift to monolatry, the reason gods exist is to reward or punish, and so the Deluge is a method of punishment, and that was particularly true for the Hebrews.
Two views completely at odds are not both correct and as such they are not exactly the same. Not in terms of worthiness in any case...
They are the same in that they are both claims, but the manner in which they are very different is what should be our focus. What I think the focus of these discussions is more about in any case.
Put another way; a Rolls is a car just like a VW bug is a car, but how they are very different is what most car buyers are more interested in considering I think, and well advised to do so!
again, exactly. agenda free, how nice would discussions be.
As Ronald Reagan said, "Well, there he goes again"...trying to have it both ways. That's so scientific.
lets look at scincetific phet.
what is more reasonable
the conditions on the surface of the earth affect how people think
or
the conditions on the surface of the earth don't affect how people think.
or
I will entertain any other line of logic.
but we both you know you will not answer ... that would means we have to think outside of attack all god believers and their claims.
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