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Glad you are still here I'm not going to lead you at all, but just suggest that you skip over the sideline wrangles with the usual suspects to come in and hi-jack a thread with their own personal agendas. You carry on talking to Theists like Madenew and see what they can say to you to lead you back to unquestioning faith.
I am listening (figuratively anyway) to everyone right now. Although going back and reading what I wrote, I think I am leaning a certain way. Still, I am in no rush, I just want more information. The side wrangles are interesting (they happen in most threads, so they don't bother me).
I am listening (figuratively anyway) to everyone right now. Although going back and reading what I wrote, I think I am leaning a certain way. Still, I am in no rush, I just want more information. The side wrangles are interesting (they happen in most threads, so they don't bother me).
What to believe ABOUT God is difficult even for someone who KNOWS God exists as I do. My suggestion is not to worry so much about what to believe ABOUT God and just believe God is there (because He is).
I am listening (figuratively anyway) to everyone right now. Although going back and reading what I wrote, I think I am leaning a certain way. Still, I am in no rush, I just want more information. The side wrangles are interesting (they happen in most threads, so they don't bother me).
Plenty of time I'm glad you find the rhubarbs as entertaining as I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
What to believe ABOUT God is difficult even for someone who KNOWS God exists as I do. My suggestion is not to worry so much about what to believe ABOUT God and just believe God is there (because He is).
There y'go, B.C - don't worry about listening and learning - just accept Mystic's faith-claims; that's all you need to do.
I mentioned the Gnostics, the Christians that though of themselves as basically a new form of Judaism and believed you needed to be Jewish, but there was also a very popular belief that Jesus and the Christ were two different beings. That the Christ "possessed" a man named Jesus. That Jesus was the one who died (and didn't rise) but that the Christ was a type of spirit and never died (and therefore never rose). This spirit abandoned Jesus when he was on the cross according to these believes (which is why Jesus cries out "why have you abandoned me?")
Gnosticism is a loose and vague term, there were many different Christian sects that could fall under that name. For example there is a passage in the gospel of John that says Jesus had a different heavenly father than the Jews, basically two gods. But you need to know the Greek to see it, it has been translated out in English and German.
And there are passages that tell Christians what they should believe, so obviously there were people who were saying the opposite. Unfortunately their writings did not survive, so all we know is what they were arguing against (highlighted below in orange).
Stop your ears when anyone speaks to you at variance with the Jesus Christ who was descended from David, and came through Mary; who really was born and ate and drank; who really was persecuted under Pontius Pilate; who really was crucified and died in the sight of witnesses in heaven, and on earth, and even under the earth; who really was raised from the dead, too, His Father resurrecting Him, in the same way His Father will resurrect those of us, who believe in Him by Jesus Christ, apart from whom we do not truly have life. - Ignatius, Trallians 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
The whole reason we have the Nicene Creed is because one particular form of Christianity was appealing to the Romans (mainly Constantine) and the others were stamped out to create uniformity (AKA politics). What's to say some of those weren't right?
That was just part of the reason for the Nicene Creed. Trinitarian Christianity started around 200 AD (possibly earlier but we have no clear evidence for that). This led to two major sects, the Trinitarians and the Arians. The council of Nicea attempted to resolve this, along with several other things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
And that about those other gospels that were excluded? Humans picked and choose just four out of dozens of gospels to put in the Bible because they fit the politics of the time.
Not quite a political fix. Marcion created the first known canon around 150 AD. So a second canon was created that was made up of most of the books we have in today's NT. This was mass produced and distributed sometime between 150 and 170 AD to combat marcion, but many of the texts had different views to the politics of the dominant church of that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
"I think there is something, but I don't think humans really know what it is. I don't think God cares what we do religion-wise, and while all religions have some truth to them, but are mostly man-made and get things wrong (it's all put in human terms, not divine)."
The 10 commandments can be reduced to 2, believe in God and be nice to people. I prefer my 2, be nice to people, keep on searching for the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
I would like to read something that would swing me back to a stronger faith. That's why I keep trying and keep praying. It's just not working that way. It's like I let a genie out of a bottle and can't stuff it back in and the harder I try, the more the bottle is cracking and may break.
I am sorry that I can give you no words of comfort, but that is the price you pay for being a honest researcher. But even if you do not believe, I would still attend a church if it gives you comfort. Maybe not a Catholic church if that would make you feel uncomfortable.
And my apologies for the previous side wrangles (which will hopefully be pursued in the science section where it belongs).
I am listening (figuratively anyway) to everyone right now. Although going back and reading what I wrote, I think I am leaning a certain way. Still, I am in no rush, I just want more information. The side wrangles are interesting (they happen in most threads, so they don't bother me).
they outlawed lining up science data and then forming a belief here.
They want people like us to say "I am for god" or "I am against god" first.
then, everything you say has to fit that statement of belief about god.
Thanks for your reply. I think it's impressive that you are willing to examine your beliefs. Most people don't genuinely question their worldview. A worldview is the lens through which a person views all of reality and it's not psychologically comfortable to question it and to be in a state of "I don't know."
If you persevere in your search for truth, keeping an open mind and heart, you will end up being much more confident about whichever worldview you end up adopting. In my experience, having my own solid reasons for my core beliefs provides psychological comfort and self-confidence about who I am. I hope you will 'test' all information for yourself and not take anyone’s word for anything, including mine. That’s the only way to build your own solid foundation of belief that you will be able to trust and rely on. Choosing a worldview based on how it "feels" or based on personal preference is not following the truth wherever that leads, and will not result in a solid foundation of belief. Having objective truth as the goal will provide you with the clearest view of reality possible.
Your current beliefs:
Quote:
"I think there is something, but I don't think humans really know what it is. I don't think God cares what we do religion-wise, and while all religions have some truth to them, but are mostly man-made and get things wrong (it's all put in human terms, not divine)."
You've said your problem is the very fundamental roots of Christianity (how it was edited, manipulated, and shaped by humankind) but, based on your current beliefs, it seems like a good idea to go a little deeper to the basic question of God's existence.
Q1: I don't want to assume anything, so could you explain a bit more what you mean by: "I think there is something"? Are you saying you believe there is a creator God or is it more like the idea of an impersonal "life force"?
Based on your response I'll have a better idea of where you're starting from.
Also, you said the video I shared drew you more away because it introduced you to the notion that God might be neither good or evil. I re-watched the video and the point that was being made was to draw a distinction between a pantheistic view of god (i.e. god is part of creation) and the view that God is separate from creation. The pantheistic view sees god as beyond good and evil, while the other view sees God as good and righteous and caring about good and evil.
A. God is beyond good and evil - "all-is-god" = Pantheism [e.g. Hinduism]
B. God is good or righteous - God is separate from creation [e.g. Jews, Islam, Christians]
This distinction can also be made this way... Twoism: [All Is Two] We worship and serve the eternal, personal Creator of all things. God alone is divine and is distinct from His creation. Oneism: [All Is One] We worship and serve creation as divine. All distinctions must be eliminated and, through “enlightenment,” we discover that we also are divine.
Q2: Can you tell me your personal reasons for desiring answers to your questions about God and religions?
Q3: How much of the Bible have your read?
Thanks.
Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 07-09-2019 at 07:03 PM..
BlueCanary,
I saw your other thread and I’m now thinking I wasted a lot of my time taking you at your word and genuinely trying be of some help to you. Honestly, you don’t seem as interested in seeking truth as you are in seeking a rationale to make it easier for you to abandon belief in God. The ultimate fate of agnostics is the same as that of atheists. Sad that you don’t care more about your fate after you die, but it’s your choice to make. Good luck.
Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 07-11-2019 at 12:34 PM..
OP: For me it was a journey, we are so brainwashed from the day we are born and me too into catholism. I first woke up more in my 30's and the rest was still searching for that religion thing in other types, BUT, it was
Julia Sweeney, one woman show, Letting Go of God that did it for me.....I was early 60's and now 81 soon.
Julia is now on the board of the Freedom From Religion foundation in WI.
Of all groups I looked and tried I found Science of Mind (SOM) to be the most helpful in my life and one never forgets it's principles.
BlueCanary,
I saw your other thread and I’m now thinking I wasted a lot of my time taking you at your word and genuinely trying be of some help to you. Honestly, you don’t seem as interested in seeking truth as you are in seeking a rationale to make it easier for you to abandon belief in God. The ultimate fate of agnostics is the same as that of atheists. Sad that you don’t care more about your fate after you die, but it’s your choice to make. Good luck.
The above is a dumb post by a self-absorbed person.
BlueCanary,
I saw your other thread and I’m now thinking I wasted a lot of my time taking you at your word and genuinely trying be of some help to you. Honestly, you don’t seem as interested in seeking truth as you are in seeking a rationale to make it easier for you to abandon belief in God. The ultimate fate of agnostics is the same as that of atheists. Sad that you don’t care more about your fate after you die, but it’s your choice to make. Good luck.
Who was it that was saying the turn or burn tactic is not a go to technique?
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I'm not going to lead you at all, but just suggest that you skip over the sideline wrangles with the usual suspects to come in and hi-jack a thread with their own personal agendas. You carry on talking to Theists like Madenew and see what they can say to you to lead you back to unquestioning faith.
I'm glad you find the rhubarbs as entertaining as I do.
