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I think the point is moot. We are no longer living in a time and place when the masses can be convinced that the Bible is valid, unless you count the subsets of American society (I think we're talking about Americans, aren't we? If not, please clarify) for which the Bible is still believed to hold all the answers. We haven't been for some time now.
As a matter of fact, I think the whole concept of "the masses" as it was once understood is no longer valid. Or maybe it never existed. Or maybe I should have another shot of maple-flavored Crown Royal and think this further through.
We are witnessing a sea change in social thinking as regards the role of religion in individual lives and in a society as a whole. That's a Captain Obvious statement, I know.
It's an interesting part of the discussion.
But, don't many christians still believe that it is their responsibility to spread the christian message throughout the world. And it was only a couple of years ago that I went to a Methodist church and one of the hymns they sang was "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before. Onward then, ye people, Join our happy throng. Blend with ours your voices, In our triumph song.
Christ the royal master, Leads against the foe. Forward into battle...Crowns and Thrones may perish,
Kingdoms rise and wane. But the cross of Jesus Constant will remain." And that Methodist church was on a push to support missions in Africa.
But yes, opinions about the bible are clearly changing. According to Gallup Polling last year: "Fewer than one in four Americans (24%) now believe the Bible is "the actual word of God, and is to be taken literally, word for word," similar to the 26% who view it as "a book of fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man." This is the first time in Gallup's four-decade trend that biblical literalism has not surpassed biblical skepticism."
But perhaps the most interesting article I have read on the topic is here: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018...le-poll-shows/ ... which outlines that many Americans believe in a higher power, but not the god of the bible.
We don't need a special person to break any seals, and don't need any flocks. We can skip the religious jargon and mumbo jumbo. Leave that for the folks lost behind the walls. A simple and natural one-to-one connection between each of us and God / the universe will suffice.
People these days though love to be at the extreme fringe polar ends (full of emotion and absurdity), and stupidly avoid the balance and clear vision at the middle. Atheists and Bible-thumpers are incredibly similar, just as the two political parties are.
Oh,.
Perhaps loose the seals would be a better sentence structure.
I used to be a hard core sceptic.
And I've consistently shared with many people here and in other forums about my initial experiences.
Strangely, as a young child the gospels and the letters were very clear to understand. It wasn't till I grew older late teens on through to mid thirties that i accrued a heavy burden. During these times my choices were far from living in the truth,. No, it was a lifestyle, and behavior that was leading me away from the Lord.
Occasionally I would read the Holy Scripture in small parts. Typically enough to quench the pain. But that was only the slightest of nourishment for the soul. Not even close to the milk of the Word.
Over time I began meditating deeply in my own. With a limited understanding of anything about God.
I didn't give much thought about Jesus because I had forgotten so much of what was given to me as a young child the few times I visited a congregation bible study,ie. Sunday school.
During the times of my meditation there were wonderfull visions and complex intructions and patterns that I was given. And after every vision I would draw what I was seeing in the spirit. Taking yrs worth of notes.
After about 5 yrs or so, i began to feel weary. The only way I could explain it. Was that my soul felt thin.
A few weeks after this, I Heard the Lord very clearly say," What do you think of my Son?".
Caught me speechless. I could not answer.
I hadn't given much thought about Yeshua..
And had forgotten most of what I was taught.
Many strange occurances happened after this, and from that moment on my focus was on Yeshua or Jesus if you prefer.
When the time came I read mark, luke, john, matt.
Over and over I read Jesus's words. And read further on little by little for months. Till my heart and soul cried out almost inately as if I had finally realized the burden.
I confessed to Jesus in that moment and told him I believe you are who you say you are, and I need you. Please take this away.
Immediately I felt the most powerfull Spiritual presence. The weirdest thing was that it was almost like an nde. Every sin was comming to rememberence and I felt my soul being washed of them all, and the weariness was replaced with a well of overflowing water.
Then to my suprise, the Lord ask me if there was anything else I needed.
The Voice stunned me. Then suddenly my spirit reacted on its own and I remembered the pains I was caused that had me confused.
It was all the forgiveness I had given to others whether aware of it or not through all my life up until that moment.
In the moment of confession, it was like light speed. It's hard to explain, except like an nde. Time was not the same.
And from that moment on I have not put the bible away.
But, don't many christians still believe that it is their responsibility to spread the christian message throughout the world. And it was only a couple of years ago that I went to a Methodist church and one of the hymns they sang was "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before. Onward then, ye people, Join our happy throng. Blend with ours your voices, In our triumph song.
Christ the royal master, Leads against the foe. Forward into battle...Crowns and Thrones may perish,
Kingdoms rise and wane. But the cross of Jesus Constant will remain." And that Methodist church was on a push to support missions in Africa.
But yes, opinions about the bible are clearly changing. According to Gallup Polling last year: "Fewer than one in four Americans (24%) now believe the Bible is "the actual word of God, and is to be taken literally, word for word," similar to the 26% who view it as "a book of fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man." This is the first time in Gallup's four-decade trend that biblical literalism has not surpassed biblical skepticism."
But perhaps the most interesting article I have read on the topic is here: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018...le-poll-shows/ ... which outlines that many Americans believe in a higher power, but not the god of the bible.
Interesting.
Sounds like the flock grew and is going to need some pasturing.
Sure! -- I've written a 400-page book broken into 10 specific, verifiable proof segments - You are welcome to (freely) examine any of it on: ucanknowthetruth.com --- Honestly, there is an incredible amount of evidence available for anyone willing to examine it.
I was thinking more along the lines of verifiable evidence rather than what you have in your book...which is not a lot more than 'It's all true because the bible says it's true'.
I went to your web-site and this is the sort of nonsense I'm talking about...
Quote:
Prophecy:
2500 BC: Great Flood of Noah’s day
• “So the Lord said, I will wipe from the face of the earth the human
race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the
creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made
them.”… 8
But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.” – Noah
was instructed to build a great Ark. (Genesis 6:5-8)
Fulfillment:
• The 120-years required to construct the Ark served as a warning period
and opportunity for mankind to repent of its wickedness and turn to God
Quote:
Thousands of accurately fulfilled Bible prophecies affirm Scripture
What about the prophecies that clearly failed?
Quote:
300 Messianic prophecies accurately fulfilled by Jesus Christ
The OT said it would happen and the NT said that it did. Brilliant!
Quote:
500 Prophesied End Time in varying stages of fulfillment
Sorry uncle but that one doesn't work. If they haven't come true then they are invalid because they could change and not happen at any time. 'End Times' prophecies are simply idiotic nonsense because when they don't happen you'll just keep repeating... 'We...it's not time yet.
Why don't you give us say, three of your best prophecies that you claim have been fulfilled and do not rely on the bible for confirmation (excluding Israel, which is self-fulfilling).
Three of your best Messianic prophecies that can be verified and do not rely on the bible for confirmation.
Three examples where science has proven the bible to be true.
Something specific like... 'On the 20th February 1950 at 12am, God will send a lightening bolt to strike down 1000 atheists'...and then show verifiable evidence that it happened, rather than the usual ambiguous, open to interpretation prophecies you guys give us like...'Some time in the future people will wear different clothes to now, children will laugh and puppies will wag their tails.'
I'm sure that many of the writers of "The Bible" , an assortment of various texts from a lot of different writers over centuries of time, Im sure that many of them were sincere since they were simply writing down the traditions & stories of their tribe/culture as they were told to them by oral tradition .
Some are nice literature like the Psalms & Song of Songs, etc.. & other books were compilations of accumulated knowledge of the world or of their history. Science didn't exist so they had to come up with"reasonable" explanations for unknowable things, evil spirits were everywhere back then. Also virtually no one except for the priesthood & some scholars were literate so they had the stranglehold on the "record" & could edit to serve their own purposes.
"The Bible" as we know it, more or less, was decided on as a single book in relatively recent times historically speaking, & it was decided on by what were essentially various political factions from several nation-states that worked to a sort of compromise at a series of meetings, think of the recent G7 perhaps or how DC is working things out, it was no different back then.
So in this sense the Bible is "valid" when looked at in the context of what it is.
I'm sure that many of the writers of "The Bible" , an assortment of various texts from a lot of different writers over centuries of time, Im sure that many of them were sincere since they were simply writing down the traditions & stories of their tribe/culture as they were told to them by oral tradition .
Some are nice literature like the Psalms & Song of Songs, etc.. & other books were compilations of accumulated knowledge of the world or of their history. Science didn't exist so they had to come up with"reasonable" explanations for unknowable things, evil spirits were everywhere back then. Also virtually no one except for the priesthood & some scholars were literate so they had the stranglehold on the "record" & could edit to serve their own purposes.
"The Bible" as we know it, more or less, was decided on as a single book in relatively recent times historically speaking, & it was decided on by what were essentially various political factions from several nation-states that worked to a sort of compromise at a series of meetings, think of the recent G7 perhaps or how DC is working things out, it was no different back then.
So in this sense the Bible is "valid" when looked at in the context of what it is.
Yes, its a library with different sections.
Some are campfire stories meant to convey life lessons, there's a history of a people and their relationship with the creator, poems , songs, lineages etc.
So content without context remains a pretext to a textproof.
Sure! -- I've written a 400-page book broken into 10 specific, verifiable proof segments - You are welcome to (freely) examine any of it on: ucanknowthetruth.com --- Honestly, there is an incredible amount of evidence available for anyone willing to examine it.
The thing that often amazes me is the number of people who simply 'parrot' the totally false notion that there is no hard, empirical evidence! -
Except we do not simply parrot there is no evidence, we know that your evidence is dubious; invented; or so blatantly obvious that no god for that evidence to be true.
It's easier to slam it than man-up, clear the table, and approach it openly. The doubters and refusers take the easy way out, and then pat themselves on the back for their lack of effort. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
The validity of the Bible only comes through personal effort and exploration. It can't be shown externally, or spoon-fed to the lazy and the stubborn. Just like love, you can't read about it or be told about it, and expect to understand it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Accept it on its terms, or move on.
You are projecting the religious mind set.
People who argue over a language they do not know with someone who does.
People who think linking to a dishonest web site is enough to refute a claim.
You have to remember that only one person can break the seals and read the scroll to the flock.
So, even if an unbeliever attempts to read the Holy Scripture it will make no sense to them.
In the context of first century AD Judaism, it makes perfect sense to me. It is the theists who have to come up with ad hoc excuses to explain away the problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
Most are only repeating what they were taught by shepherds or ministers, and the Word that was planted is fading away from lack of nourishment.
The same goes for theists too.
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