Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-09-2008, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 4,231,683 times
Reputation: 354

Advertisements

I went to the Potala Palace in Lhasa, Tibet back in 2000. There were many Tibetan pilgrims from the countryside there. I noticed that the different Buddhas were given reputations like the Buddha of health, long life, prosperity, etc.

The Buddha of prosperity was interesting in that pilgrims would push me out of their way past me to crawl under his table. This was supposed to bring them fortune. I wondered whether the Buddhist religion has evolved into this superstitious practice or whether it was always like this. My WESTERN learning of Buddhism certainly differed from what I observed from the Tibetans.

Perhaps the use of religion to seek monetary gain or longevity is found in all religions? Has everything turned into money seeking and self reward?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-09-2008, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,827 posts, read 7,334,551 times
Reputation: 4949
It seems that way, just business as usual.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2008, 11:28 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,452,606 times
Reputation: 4070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Builder View Post
Perhaps the use of religion to seek monetary gain or longevity is found in all religions? Has everything turned into money seeking and self reward?

What makes you say that?

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/robertson.jpg (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2008, 12:18 PM
 
790 posts, read 4,021,474 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Builder View Post
I went to the Potala Palace in Lhasa, Tibet back in 2000. There were many Tibetan pilgrims from the countryside there. I noticed that the different Buddhas were given reputations like the Buddha of health, long life, prosperity, etc.

The Buddha of prosperity was interesting in that pilgrims would push me out of their way past me to crawl under his table. This was supposed to bring them fortune. I wondered whether the Buddhist religion has evolved into this superstitious practice or whether it was always like this. My WESTERN learning of Buddhism certainly differed from what I observed from the Tibetans.

Perhaps the use of religion to seek monetary gain or longevity is found in all religions? Has everything turned into money seeking and self reward?
I think that the superstitious-ness (as part of folk religion?) preceded the arrival of Buddhist teachings in Tibet so i view it as a carry over from that time and it kind of blends with Buddhism in what could be seen as silly or comical or superstitious.
But all the many Buddhas are indeed there to offer their blessings in a myriad of ways and, unless you're a monk or nun, worldly renunciation is not a prerequisite for being a Buddhist or partaking in Buddhist practices.
And i see that there are levels or degrees of renunciation for those who have not been ordained. As one travels along the Buddhist path the obvious becomes more clear and the attachment to all that is transitory has less and less of a hold.
But there are degrees and/or stages of renunciation and they didn't have to be so rude in pushing you. tsk, tsk, tsk, such grasping. Although if i knew that sitting under that table could help me have a home, i'd probably push you too ... no i wouldn't but i'd get under there somehow.

Last edited by rubyskye; 03-09-2008 at 12:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2008, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Y-Town Area
4,009 posts, read 5,738,989 times
Reputation: 3504
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyskye View Post
I think that the superstitious-ness preceded the arrival of Buddhist teachings in Tibet so i view it as a carry over from that time and it kind of blends with Buddhism in what could be seen as silly or comical or superstitious.
But all the many Buddhas are indeed there to offer their blessings in a myriad of ways and, unless you're a monk or nun, worldly renunciation is not a prerequisite for being a Buddhist or practicing Buddhism.
And i see that there are levels or degrees of renunciation even for those who have not been ordained. As one travels along the Buddhist path the obvious becomes more clear and the attachment to all that is transitory has less and less of a hold.
But there are degrees and/or stages of renunciation and they didn't have to be so rude in pushing you. tsk, tsk, tsk, such grasping. Although if i knew that sitting under that table could help me have a home, i'd probably push you too ... no i wouldn't but i'd get under there somehow.
Good response Rubyskye !
This is by Tenzin Wangyal, Palyul
Boston, USA -- If the Buddha had lived in today's world, he would have simply written a self-help guide and called it "How to End Suffering". He would have written it in the vernacular and wanted it to be translated into as many languages as possible.
Well, my point is that Buddha Shakyamuni was most concerned about the subject of suffering. Based on his assessment of our plight as humans, he laid down the essence of his wisdom in The Four Noble Truths that can be summarized as such: that life is suffering; desire is the cause of suffering; that the cause of suffering can be eliminated; and this can be done by following the eight-fold path.
It is true that our ancestors have been very successful in preserving the teachings of the Buddha. According to most Tibetans, this is the “only thing that we can boast of”, as His Holiness himself put it. But it is important to know the kind of preservatives that have been used to preserve Tibetan Buddhism and that have given it its distinctive flavor. Tibetan Buddhism has been acknowledged to be a combination of three distinct religious traditions - the divine dharma (lha chos) or Buddhism; Bon dharma (bon chos) or the indigenous religious tradition of Tibet characterized by shamanistic and animistic rituals performed by priests; and the dharma of human beings (mi chos) or folk religion.
A man bade farewell to his wife as he embarked on a long journey, not knowing when he would return. A few months later, his wife gave birth to a boy. Two score and five years later, the man returned and his wife introduced the boy to him as his son. In spite of the sincerity in their faces, the man was hard-pressed to believe this – after all, the boy bore scant resemblance to him, and his mannerisms were different. Indeed, so much had changed in his absence … Similarly, imagine if the Buddha were to return today, what would he make of our marked piety as expressed in the spinning of prayer wheels, circumambulation, prostrations, recitation of texts, chanting of mantras, and performing rituals? Would he be impressed or smile in compassionate disagreement? Would he be like the man in the story, and not recognize Tibetan Buddhism as representative of his teachings?
Religion is defined as “a set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader” (The American Heritage Dictionary). Therefore, in evaluating Tibetan Buddhism, one must look not only at the teachings of the Buddha but also at the actual beliefs and practices of its proponents and followers. I will briefly outline four problems that plague Tibetan Buddhism as we practice it today, and taking my cue from the Buddha, I will make a modest attempt to identify the nature of the problem, its cause(s), the attainable goal and the path.
Superstition
I am not about to suggest that superstition is unique to Tibetans, but the abundance of such beliefs, the overwhelming majority of Tibetans who subscribe to some sort of superstition, and the degree of influence or control it exerts on their lives certainly lends credence to the saying that “superstition is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery”. By definition, superstitions are beliefs, practices, or rites irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance. To the superstitious among us, whistling at night is an invitation to ghosts and other malignant spirits; second-hand clothes must be lightly spat on before putting them on; a wart can be made to disappear by simply pretending to sweep it away with a broom on the fifteenth day of any lunar month; the sound of thunder is still a dragon’s roar; and leaving on a journey on a Saturday is inauspicious; and so on. And then there is the whole realm of dream interpretations. Instead of discrediting these superstitions as the Buddha clearly would have done, a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner (even if he is a master of empirically-based dialectics) will not only acknowledge the validity of these irrational beliefs of folk religion, in many cases, he will justify the beliefs using Buddhism, and advise a remedial course of action. Belief in superstitions is a result of ignorance or fear of the unknown. What is even more interesting is that in some cases, many Tibetans simply obey the dictates of superstitions no longer even aware of what they are afraid of – or what dire consequences might befall them should they not abide by them.
Clearly, the antidote to a superstition is not another superstition as our ancestors have been creative enough to come up with (for instance, they would advise that if you are compelled to leave on a journey on an inauspicious day such as Saturday, you should pretend to leave the day before the actual departure date, taking all your baggage and leaving it with somebody, return home and start out again the next day thereby supposedly cheating superstition itself). This would only create a vicious cycle (similar to having to lie again to cover the initial lie) and only drag one even deeper into the bottomless abyss of superstition. I believe education is the cure – for example, educated Tibetans (including young schoolchildren) should try to patiently talk to their parents and grandparents about the alternative and scientific explanations for those phenomena their superstitious elders attribute to supernatural powers; local Tibetan organizations should hold information or education sessions where there can be open discussion about the senselessness in relying on superstitions – only then we will be able to get rid of our centuries-old narrow-mindedness.
BY WAY OF CONCLUSION,
let me leave you with these words from His Holiness (from speech delivered at a San Francisco event in November 2005): “To become a 21st century Buddhist, individuals should not only practice the physical and verbal acts of the religion, such as chanting mantras and prostrating, but think actively about what being a Buddhist means in today’s world. The effort of transforming the mind is more important but more difficult.”

Tenzin Wangyal is an alumnus of TCV School, Dharamsala, and Middlebury College, Vermont. He currently works in Boston, USA and is on the Board of Directors for Students for a Free Tibet (SFT). He can be reached at tenzin_wangyal@hotmail.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2008, 12:46 PM
 
790 posts, read 4,021,474 times
Reputation: 512
Thanks. That is clarifying.
Just before i read this i edited my post and added "folk religion"?.
cool.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2008, 12:52 PM
 
790 posts, read 4,021,474 times
Reputation: 512
that's funny Skoro!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top