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I once started a thread on another site titled, Would you sign a contract without reading it?" I think we have all done it and many of us have been burned to varying degrees because we did not. The fine print comes back to haunt us all the time.
Well, what I have come to notice is that this is what happens with many Christians, and I would say, the overwhelming majority of them the world over. Every now and again you may hear about or read about someone who claimed they read the ENTIRE Bible before making their decision to become a Christian, but by in large, I would say these people are few and VERY far between. What you are more likely to have are people who made their decision based on a passage here and there and/or during an altar call after some real syrupy, guilt laced sermon OR one filled with promises of heaven or fear of hell. Their decision may have also been based on some message or teaching that somehow serving Jesus will make their lives better because he will "provide all my needs" or "He will give his angels charge over me" or some other scripture of promise.
So what we have are many people who sign their name to the dotted line, so to speak, knowing little of the full story. Now they are encouraged to read the contract (the Bible), BUT often starting in cute books like th Gospel of John not Exodus or Numbers, for example. If they are still young and impressionable, isolated, grew up in an area saturated with pre-conceived biases in favor of the Bible and probably not educated in higher learning dealing with subjects like philosophy, world religions and science, chances are they might just brush right past suspect passages in the Bible. On the other hand, they might not, but since the contract has already been signed, many are encouraged to persevere despite any doubts they might have. In fact, some are told that doubt is of the devil and questioning God (READ: the interpretation you have been given) is not a wise move as it opens one up to the devil who is seeking to make one stumble from the faith.
So what you now have are lots of people brimming with doubts, but afraid to admit it makes no sense, but the doubts are offset (time and time again as the conflict rages within) by the idea that God must know ad will reveal the truth in time. There are so many people who got around to reading the contract, the book that is to be their guidebook and manual for life, the Bible, and fell away from the faith. The Old Testament stories of gore and violence allegedly ordered by a god Christians call good, the off the wall stories of donkeys and snakes talking and a man holed up in an ark with ONE window with animals for over a year stretches the application of one's intelligence.
The whole thing reminds me of the girl who, to the chagrin of her parents, runs off with the questionable guy after getting into a shouting match with them where she tells them how much she loves him and they don't know how good he really is. She has told the whole world she KNOWS what she is doing. When the real deal begins to wear in, she perseveres because she now feels she has to prove to all observers she made the right decision despite all the hints in her face telling her she is making a grave mistake.
Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Alot of us Christians, perhaps most of us, "sign our name on the dotted line without knowing the full story", like you said. But I think that's the way it's supposed to be. If we saw what tests and trials would come, or what "the cross" really meant, it could be that we'd never have signed. That is what scares alot of people out of signing the contract.. and also, some can't stand the storms even after signing, and fall away. (But God always keeps His side of the contract!)
Some of us gave our hearts to God when we were quite young, but I believe that to each one of us there comes a time when we need to "count the cost", like it mentions in the above verses. For some it may be before they sign, for some it may be later... but for all of us, we know enough of what we're getting that we feel honored to put our name down.
Oh my. A great OP and then a totally twisted response that doesn't grasp the meaning of the OP.
OK. Ignorance is bliss.
My definition of "stupid" is "ignorant and choosing to remain so." Or, in other words, "don't try to tell me the facts, my mind is made up and I am happy with it."
Alot of us Christians, perhaps most of us, "sign our name on the dotted line without knowing the full story", like you said. But I think that's the way it's supposed to be.
Um...I think you may have missed the point Cg, but thanks for the compliment anyway .
I once started a thread on another site titled, Would you sign a contract without reading it?" I think we have all done it and many of us have been burned to varying degrees because we did not. The fine print comes back to haunt us all the time.
Well, what I have come to notice is that this is what happens with many Christians, and I would say, the overwhelming majority of them the world over. Every now and again you may hear about or read about someone who claimed they read the ENTIRE Bible before making their decision to become a Christian, but by in large, I would say these people are few and VERY far between. What you are more likely to have are people who made their decision based on a passage here and there and/or during an altar call after some real syrupy, guilt laced sermon OR one filled with promises of heaven or fear of hell. Their decision may have also been based on some message or teaching that somehow serving Jesus will make their lives better because he will "provide all my needs" or "He will give his angels charge over me" or some other scripture of promise.
So what we have are many people who sign their name to the dotted line, so to speak, knowing little of the full story. Now they are encouraged to read the contract (the Bible), BUT often starting in cute books like th Gospel of John not Exodus or Numbers, for example. If they are still young and impressionable, isolated, grew up in an area saturated with pre-conceived biases in favor of the Bible and probably not educated in higher learning dealing with subjects like philosophy, world religions and science, chances are they might just brush right past suspect passages in the Bible. On the other hand, they might not, but since the contract has already been signed, many are encouraged to persevere despite any doubts they might have. In fact, some are told that doubt is of the devil and questioning God (READ: the interpretation you have been given) is not a wise move as it opens one up to the devil who is seeking to make one stumble from the faith.
So what you now have are lots of people brimming with doubts, but afraid to admit it makes no sense, but the doubts are offset (time and time again as the conflict rages within) by the idea that God must know ad will reveal the truth in time. There are so many people who got around to reading the contract, the book that is to be their guidebook and manual for life, the Bible, and fell away from the faith. The Old Testament stories of gore and violence allegedly ordered by a god Christians call good, the off the wall stories of donkeys and snakes talking and a man holed up in an ark with ONE window with animals for over a year stretches the application of one's intelligence.
The whole thing reminds me of the girl who, to the chagrin of her parents, runs off with the questionable guy after getting into a shouting match with them where she tells them how much she loves him and they don't know how good he really is. She has told the whole world she KNOWS what she is doing. When the real deal begins to wear in, she perseveres because she now feels she has to prove to all observers she made the right decision despite all the hints in her face telling her she is making a grave mistake.
I believe there is a little truth in what you are saying. But for a lot of people it is more of a spiritual awakening first then they learn more as they search. People who believe the bible come from all walks of life,not just the ignorant and uneducated. There are plenty of learned,sophisticated,intelligent,college educated people who believe the God of the bible is real. I know there are some on here that love to point out how many degrees they have, how many schools they went to,how they have studied religions etc. and give the impression that somehow that makes them an expert on God and religion. Fortunately,that doesn`t make them an expert on anything spiritual. They may be an expert on religion and what they have learned from other men but as far as spiritual things go,they can`t understand them. They try to reason their way through and simply cannot discern the things of the spirit. So a lot of times they will look at spiritual people as ignorant or uneducated simply because they cannot reason that it`s true nor understand the things of God. Having men in a school setting teach you about religion,history,and God doesn`t make you wise to anything except the things seen and the person`s views who taught them to you.
The contract was signed by Christ. We just have to have our names added.
At no point has and no point will faith ever be removed from the equation.
You can now proceed with one of your one-liners about 'Oh yes, the ole faith argument', to which I can only reply 'YES!'
My faith is not blind. But my salvation and my relationship with God will never 100% totally be proven out until death. Thinking you can reason out and figure out and get God to fit in our puny little human logic is so arrogant.
That's why I love it when people say 'this makes no sense', 'this isn't logical', or 'if God wanted to do this, then he should have done that' or 'if I were God, I would think/do this'
I believe there is a little truth in what you are saying. But for a lot of people it is more of a spiritual awakening first then they learn more as they search. People who believe the bible come from all walks of life,not just the ignorant and uneducated. There are plenty of learned,sophisticated,intelligent,college educated people who believe the God of the bible is real. I know there are some on here that love to point out how many degrees they have, how many schools they went to,how they have studied religions etc. and give the impression that somehow that makes them an expert on God and religion. Fortunately,that doesn't make them an expert on anything spiritual. They may be an expert on religion and what they have learned from other men but as far as spiritual things go,they can`t understand them. They try to reason their way through and simply cannot discern the things of the spirit. So a lot of times they will look at spiritual people as ignorant or uneducated simply because they cannot reason that it`s true nor understand the things of God. Having men in a school setting teach you about religion,history,and God doesn`t make you wise to anything except the things seen and the person`s views who taught them to you.
In light of this topic, What if I went to a crusade or a Christian witness walked up to a and asked me if I wanted to accept Christ as my savior? What if then looked at them and said, can you give me about a year to first read the Bible from cover to cover, complete with all the necessary tools needed, do you think they would leave me alone at that point OR stress the idea that "Today is the day of salvation" and "I don't know if I won't die tonight...blah blah blah?"
Also, if I am not saved, hence imbued with the spirit of God to lead me in "all truth," can I actually understand what I am reading. Clearly Christians drop this smug hint that you are clueless about the Bible unless you are a spirit led Christian. Chicken/egg argument.
In light of this topic, What if I went to a crusade or a Christian witness walked up to a and asked me if I wanted to accept Christ as my savior? What if then looked at them and said, can you give me about a year to first read the Bible from cover to cover, complete with all the necessary tools needed, do you think they would leave me alone at that point OR stress the idea that "Today is the day of salvation" and "I don't know if I won't die tonight...blah blah blah?"
Also, if I am not saved, hence imbued with the spirit of God to lead me in "all truth," can I actually understand what I am reading. Clearly Christians drop this smug hint that you are clueless about the Bible unless you are a spirit led Christian. Chicken/egg argument.
Chicken/egg argument?
How about 'That's what the Bible teaches argument'?
Cuz it does, ya know?
As far as your question regarding salvation, I would tell you (in yet another one of these hypothetical situations) that God doesn't require anyone to know the bible cover to cover, that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and then I would tell you, if you want to read the bible first, go read the bible.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask them and God bless you.
Wanna coke or some coffee??
That'd pretty much sum up the conversation.
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