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Sometimes I think about what Jesus said concerning the world. That His followers would be hated for His namesake. Looking at this from a practical view, Christianity makes everyone equal. Everybody from emperors to slaves, everyone is seen equally in Christ. People in power would have a problem with that naturally, so anyone preaching this message in the ancient world would be persecuted based on that alone. Of course that was back then, and this is just one of the Abrahamic religions.
In today's world, we are really moving forward in things like science and technology. We believe through these things, we can make the world a better place. (And of course we are competing against other nations in these areas) As they say, the more you know the further you'll go. Many might see religion as something of a stumbling block, something that would limit the progression of learning about the world around us. Now not all religions speak in a way that would make itself out to know the mysteries of the world, allowing science to answer those questions freely. Yet most have their creation stories and own truths about life. I believe most religions who had their own "facts" about the world, have pretty much died out. Hardly no one believes in greek mythology today for instance. Yet most of the world still believe in the Abrahamic religions. This belief includes a very specific creation account. Whether or not you take this account literally, it is still detailed in what it says, and it forms the foundation of man's relationship with God. Now if you do take it literally, it definitely flies in the face of what is accepted about the universe as revealed by observation. For this reason, People who are not religious, who doesn't hate God because they don't believe He exists, strongly come against those who actively teach their views of YEC and so forth. (Not that I'm saying atheists try to take the personal view away from the person, but oppose it when it is spoken in public) Yet there is something that separates the Abrahamic religions from other religions that claim they know the mysteries of the universe. That would make today's world even more in opposition against it, than just the simple belief of the universe being 6,000 years old.
The Abrahamic religions in a way specifically targets something that would drive a scientist like Richard Dawkins up the wall. Within the creation account, there were two unique trees in the Garden of Eden, the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told Adam not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or else he would die. Many could view this, especially if this is a mythical account, as God wanting to keep Adam and Eve ignorant. That searching after knowledge was a bad thing. So if you translate that in an ultimate sense, any search for knowledge is a bad thing, especially when that knowledge possibly contradicts God. This aspect falls into direct opposition of today's world, where getting more knowledge is life. Christianity goes back to this story the most out of any other Abrahamic religion, and thus would be the most hated in today's world if it came down to that reason.
Now, what about the other tree in the garden? It's probably the least talked about thing concerning the Genesis story, but that tree was available to Adam and Eve, along with all the other trees. This tree, the Tree of Life, offered the ability to live forever. (Now personally I believe Adam was created to live forever, so that feature was already with him. So the main trait the Tree of Life offers, is whatever state you are in before eating of the fruit, that state you will remain in forever.) We have no record of Adam eating from this tree, and it may be implied he never ate from this tree. If that be the case, if we were to say which tree God wanted us to eat from, or what aspect He rather us have between knowledge and eternal life, He wanted us to have eternal life. So this is what Jesus brings us, showing us Christianity really goes back to this event, even more so than Judaism or Islam. (If you were to ask me in fact, the whole Adam and Eve story is almost irrelevant to Judaism and Islam.) This is something else that would drive Richard Dawkins up the wall. Instead of finding out everything there is to know about this world, and making this life better, those of the Abrahamic beliefs and especially Christianity, are putting all their eggs in an afterlife basket. We are looking forward to a better life, in the life there is no observational evidence for. In essence today's world hate these beliefs, again particularly Christianity, because we are avoiding knowledge and we care the most about a life in the by and by. So let me know what you all think about my assessment.
Important Note: I don't myself believe the lesson behind Genesis is that God wants us to be ignorant and void of knowledge. The point is it could be implied that way. Technically if God did not want us to obtain knowledge, it was only knowledge of good and evil. Facts about the world aren't good nor evil. I believe the world before as presented in Genesis, was perfect. What we know as evil today, didn't exist in that world. So even if we were devoid of knowledge of good and evil, what God put in us and our nature reflected what was good, and void of what we call evil. (Of course with that, our understanding of good and evil changes)
In essence today's world hate these beliefs, again particularly Christianity, because we are avoiding knowledge and we care the most about a life in the by and by. So let me know what you all think about my assessment.
Heavenese, I wouldn't say I hate the beliefs which focus people on the "by and by", but I do wonder why it is the assumption of the majority of Christianity that their Jesus intended for that to be the case. According to your bible, the "kingdom of heaven/God" isn't a place, nor a time. It is a condition of the heart. So why Christianity has relegated it to the future, I don't understand.
Heavenese, I wouldn't say I hate the beliefs which focus people on the "by and by", but I do wonder why it is the assumption of the majority of Christianity that their Jesus intended for that to be the case. According to your bible, the "kingdom of heaven/God" isn't a place, nor a time. It is a condition of the heart. So why Christianity has relegated it to the future, I don't understand.
I agree with that. Yet there's the aspect that teaches on the life after this one. In actuality, the afterlife starts the second you believe in Jesus. Baptism represents us dying with Jesus and being raised again. So on the inside, the next life has already started, but on the outside this world is passing away. Ultimately we do long for all of creation to be transformed, which will happen later on according to our beliefs. So we do put insight into the next life in some form, but it should be seen in this life. Bringing heaven on earth theoretically is one of the signs that Jesus is who it is said of Him.
Last edited by Heavenese; 03-07-2014 at 09:24 AM..
I agree with that. Yet there's the aspect that teaches on the life after this one. In actuality, the afterlife starts the second you believe in Jesus. Baptism represents us dying with Jesus and being raised again. So on the inside, the next life has already started, but on the outside this world is passing away. Ultimately we do long for all of creation to be transformed, which will happen later on according to our beliefs. So we do put insight into the next life in some form, but it should be seen in this life. Bringing heaven on earth theoretically is one of the signs that Jesus is who it is said of Him.
You agree with what, exactly? That the emphasis of Jesus' teachings was about "heaven" being manifested in the here and now? If that is true, but some Christians' main focus is simply hanging on to their faith in Jesus' blood sacrifice until their life is over so that they can avoid hell and enjoy the "by and by", then their beliefs become problematic, yes?
So, I guess I'm unsure of the point of your thread, Heavenese. Is it your contention that Christianity's hyper-focus on the hereafter is a good thing or a bad thing?
You agree with what, exactly? That the emphasis of Jesus' teachings was about "heaven" being manifested in the here and now? If that is true, but some Christians' main focus is simply hanging on to their faith in Jesus' blood sacrifice until their life is over so that they can avoid hell and enjoy the "by and by", then their beliefs become problematic, yes?
So, I guess I'm unsure of the point of your thread, Heavenese. Is it your contention that Christianity's hyper-focus on the hereafter is a good thing or a bad thing?
Well, the point of the thread was to show perhaps a practical reason for why someone would hate beliefs stemming from Judaism. Of course we might see religion as an outdated system, but if one view the beliefs as saying what I laid out in the Op, the Abrahamic beliefs is utterly opposed to progression of this life in a sense. That's why it makes sense for guys like Richard Dawkins to utterly oppose these specific beliefs, and not so focused on others.
I agree that Jesus brought life onto the earth, and that we could experience Heaven (all the good things that are expected in the next life) right now. Yet there is the expectations of the life to come, He also brought this. In this life, we will have trouble, so we do long for God's will to be done on earth. We still hurt, we still have pain and so forth in this life. So in this sense, the expectations of the next life are good. God's will is not completely being done on this earth. Just from this view, forget the hell part and christians just sitting around waiting to die to experience life, a person might find it detrimental to getting the best out of this life as it were. Having any expectations about the next life, would be detrimental.
Well, the point of the thread was to show perhaps a practical reason for why someone would hate beliefs stemming from Judaism. Of course we might see religion as an outdated system, but if one view the beliefs as saying what I laid out in the Op, the Abrahamic beliefs is utterly opposed to progression of this life in a sense. That's why it makes sense for guys like Richard Dawkins to utterly oppose these specific beliefs, and not so focused on others.
I agree that Jesus brought life onto the earth, and that we could experience Heaven (all the good things that are expected in the next life) right now. Yet there is the expectations of the life to come, He also brought this. In this life, we will have trouble, so we do long for God's will to be done on earth. We still hurt, we still have pain and so forth in this life. So in this sense, the expectations of the next life are good. God's will is not completely being done on this earth. Just from this view, forget the hell part and christians just sitting around waiting to die to experience life, a person might find it detrimental to getting the best out of this life as it were. Having any expectations about the next life, would be detrimental.
Okay, but I'm trying to understand, from your point of view, is it a good thing or a bad thing that Christianity is "utterly opposed to progression". If it's a good thing, why? If it's a bad thing in your opinion, then why would Jesus want you to be hated for something, in his name's sake, that's bad?
Okay, but I'm trying to understand, from your point of view, is it a good thing or a bad thing that Christianity is "utterly opposed to progression". If it's a good thing, why? If it's a bad thing in your opinion, then why would Jesus want you to be hated for something, in his name's sake, that's bad?
I just wanted some opinions on what I wrote. Whether people would agree with my assessment or not. I don't believe in all the things in the OP. My view is unique. Yet I'm wondering if this is how people view those who do teach and believe things like YEC and the view about eternal life.
I just wanted some opinions on what I wrote. Whether people would agree with my assessment or not. I don't believe in all the things in the OP. My view is unique. Yet I'm wondering if this is how people view those who do teach and believe things like YEC and the view about eternal life.
Except, you included yourself as being one of those people. You wrote:
"Instead of finding out everything there is to know about this world, and making this life better, those of the Abrahamic beliefs and especially Christianity, are putting all their eggs in an afterlife basket. We are looking forward to a better life, in the life there is no observational evidence for. In essence today's world hate these beliefs, again particularly Christianity, because we are avoiding knowledge and we care the most about a life in the by and by. So let me know what you all think about my assessment."
So, yes, if it is true that you are avoiding knowledge, and have no interest in making this life better for others, because you really only care about a future life, I see that as a problem. I also don't view it as a belief system that is in line with what your own Jesus seems to have been preaching.
I just wanted some opinions on what I wrote. Whether people would agree with my assessment or not. I don't believe in all the things in the OP. My view is unique. Yet I'm wondering if this is how people view those who do teach and believe things like YEC and the view about eternal life.
Frankly, I don't hate Christianity or Jesus' teachings. I dislike (not hate) the way some people choose to spread those teachings, and the way they express themselves in doing so.
Except, you included yourself as being one of those people. You wrote:
"Instead of finding out everything there is to know about this world, and making this life better, those of the Abrahamic beliefs and especially Christianity, are putting all their eggs in an afterlife basket. We are looking forward to a better life, in the life there is no observational evidence for. In essence today's world hate these beliefs, again particularly Christianity, because we are avoiding knowledge and we care the most about a life in the by and by. So let me know what you all think about my assessment."
So, yes, if it is true that you are avoiding knowledge, and have no interest in making this life better for others, because you really only care about a future life, I see that as a problem. I also don't view it as a belief system that is in line with what your own Jesus seems to have been preaching.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. In that "we", I was including myself as a Christian, and the view as the possible outlook some would have about us. In the important note section, I clarified the knowledge part wasn't my personal position. Of course again, I do have hopes for the next life, or things to look forward to.
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