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Nowhere in Mark does Jesus even hint He is God. Even in Matthew and Luke we are hard pressed to find any direct quote by Jesus, "I am God". Only in the last gospel, John does it finally come out that Jesus declares Himself to be God when He talks to Pontius Pilate. Other than that it is John who declares Him to be God. "The Word WAS God". Now if the Holy Spirit pulled up a chair next to John when he was writing the gospel 70 years after Jesus' death and dictated, "I want you to write that Jesus was God," why on earth did the HS wait until John after three other gospels had already been written not declaring Jesus to be God, but only the Son of God, to declare this fact? Why didn't the HS spirit start from the very beginning with Mark and direct him to declare that Jesus was God? None of this makes any logical sense.
Nowhere in Mark does Jesus even hint He is God. Even in Matthew and Luke we are hard pressed to find any direct quote by Jesus, "I am God". Only in the last gospel, John does it finally come out that Jesus declares Himself to be God when He talks to Pontius Pilate. Other than that it is John who declares Him to be God. "The Word WAS God". Now if the Holy Spirit pulled up a chair next to John when he was writing the gospel 70 years after Jesus' death and dictated, "I want you to write that Jesus was God," why on earth did the HS wait until John after three other gospels had already been written not declaring Jesus to be God, but only the Son of God, to declare this fact? Why didn't the HS spirit start from the very beginning with Mark and direct him to declare that Jesus was God? None of this makes any logical sense.
Nowhere in Mark does Jesus even hint He is God. Even in Matthew and Luke we are hard pressed to find any direct quote by Jesus, "I am God". Only in the last gospel, John does it finally come out that Jesus declares Himself to be God when He talks to Pontius Pilate. Other than that it is John who declares Him to be God. "The Word WAS God". Now if the Holy Spirit pulled up a chair next to John when he was writing the gospel 70 years after Jesus' death and dictated, "I want you to write that Jesus was God," why on earth did the HS wait until John after three other gospels had already been written not declaring Jesus to be God, but only the Son of God, to declare this fact? Why didn't the HS spirit start from the very beginning with Mark and direct him to declare that Jesus was God? None of this makes any logical sense.
Not much in the Bible does make sense. I suspect that the writer of John found a need for that to be included, where the others didn't. Of course, no supernatural spirit had any influence in any of the writings.
It was marketing. Jesus had to be eventually promoted to the status of a god because the competition was gods. Persuading empire dwellers to throw off Mars and Jupiter in favor of embracing a mere prophet was a tough sell. Mark, the earliest gospel, was written before this recognition materialized. By the time of John the proper sales approach had been grasped.
I think so. It is historically true that the disciples of Jesus were competing with a much larger divinity, Mithra, who had been around for roughly 3,000 years in all of Euro-Asia and the disciples had to "dress up" Jesus' image so it seems that His image had to take on a greater power i.e. divinity in order to get pagans to accept Him as a divine figure.
Reading up on the Gospel of Thomas, which didn't stress Jesus' divinity either, someone gave this response as to why it was rejected as part of the canon:
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Thomas was rejected primarily because it specifically rejected structured authority and meeting places, teaching that Christ's wisdom was for all and that it could be found within, that you did not have to turn to others to find Christ or God. Needless to say, this is not exactly what a power-structured system would want.
The choice of books in the Bible was purely political.
Sadly, it appears so.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 12-20-2013 at 10:15 AM..
Nowhere in Mark does Jesus even hint He is God. Even in Matthew and Luke we are hard pressed to find any direct quote by Jesus, "I am God". Only in the last gospel, John does it finally come out that Jesus declares Himself to be God when He talks to Pontius Pilate. Other than that it is John who declares Him to be God. "The Word WAS God". Now if the Holy Spirit pulled up a chair next to John when he was writing the gospel 70 years after Jesus' death and dictated, "I want you to write that Jesus was God," why on earth did the HS wait until John after three other gospels had already been written not declaring Jesus to be God, but only the Son of God, to declare this fact? Why didn't the HS spirit start from the very beginning with Mark and direct him to declare that Jesus was God? None of this makes any logical sense.
Good post. Perhaps I should stay out of this one. , but just would point out that it might be useful to compare the synoptics accounts of the trial where Jesus' evasive 'you have said so' in Matthew and Luke is a plain 'I am' in Mark.
I would also like to add as a very large footnote that the ONLY reason Christianity was able to rise from a tiny insignificant, illegal religion was due to the immoral act of ONE man: Constantine.
His lie of seeing a cross in the sky was done solely to curry favor with silent Christians within his army's ranks in order to get them to fight harder against Maxentius at the pivotal Battle of the Milvian Bridge. Constantine stayed a closet pagan his whole life. The clergy, on life support by now, happily went along with his promise to make Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire as long as certain pagan practices could be incorporated into Christianity. These practices continue to this day, but the power structure in the Christian hierarchy hardly pays them any mind as long as their leaders are kept in power. So it has always been and so it is.
Watch just the first 2 minute of this video to get an idea of exactly how Christianity took hold with such force in the 4th century.
Jesus was made a god figure well after the purported events of the 4 gospels. Ultimately, it's a perversion of the point of the story that serves the ends of those in power.
Jesus is actually the archetypal character who represents YOU, the enlightened reader of the bible in the story of a human mind's progression to a theoretical higher level of consciousness beyond the standard human conscious level.
It's a much harder concept to grasp and is a totally... let's say, "unhelpful" concept for controlling hordes of people so the story was manipulated into a Jesus, the "king of kings" to whom you owe your eternal salvation, (which really boils down to a character who is essentially the ideal midevil European monarch and to whom you owe your total allegiance).
And since real monarchs of the time were "anointed by Jesus the super-king" to be kings of the mortal realm, ye peasants had better damn well do what the king wants and never, EVER question what His Majesty orders or things are gonna get wrathful.
In today's America, Jesus has evolved yet again (and not by accident) into an ultra fluffy Kenny Loggins lookalike who is your best bud and is just waiting for the signal to come down out of the sky, give you the greatest bro-hug of your existence and fix everything that's wrong with the world.
The sneaky part of that "Jesus" character is that in the end, "the apocalypse" and/or your next life matters more so you should focus on that and let "someone else" worry about the current problems of this hopelessly corrupt world that is destined to be destroyed anyway (*heh* suckers... says the Man).
Jesus was made a god figure well after the purported events of the 4 gospels. Ultimately, it's a perversion of the point of the story that serves the ends of those in power.
Jesus is actually the archetypal character who represents YOU, the enlightened reader of the bible in the story of a human mind's progression to a theoretical higher level of consciousness beyond the standard human conscious level.
Chango, my brother . . . how insightful and perceptive of you! His is the most evolved and sophisticated of the archetypes that preceded Him in the "spiritual fossil record."
Quote:
It's a much harder concept to grasp and is a totally... let's say, "unhelpful" concept for controlling hordes of people so the story was manipulated into a Jesus, the "king of kings" to whom you owe your eternal salvation, (which really boils down to a character who is essentially the ideal midevil European monarch and to whom you owe your total allegiance).
And since real monarchs of the time were "anointed by Jesus the super-king" to be kings of the mortal realm, ye peasants had better damn well do what the king wants and never, EVER question what His Majesty orders or things are gonna get wrathful.
Couldn't resist, huh? The corruption began much earlier in the development of Christianity, Chango . . . but it did proceed much as you characterized it.
Quote:
In today's America, Jesus has evolved yet again (and not by accident) into an ultra fluffy Kenny Loggins lookalike who is your best bud and is just waiting for the signal to come down out of the sky, give you the greatest bro-hug of your existence and fix everything that's wrong with the world.
The sneaky part of that "Jesus" character is that in the end, "the apocalypse" and/or your next life matters more so you should focus on that and let "someone else" worry about the current problems of this hopelessly corrupt world that is destined to be destroyed anyway (*heh* suckers... says the Man).
See how that works?
Your cynicism is noted, Chango. The love is being felt within the hearts of more and more people . . . but they have to fight the carnal corruption of dogma and the "precepts and doctrines of men." Most do not believe in the New Covenant and still distrust their hearts because of the carnal focus of most human beings. Trusting the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to guide them to the truth God has "written in our hearts" relies too much on their innate spirituality . . . and not the written dogma. Spirituality is too abstract and mystical.
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, but just would point out that it might be useful to compare the synoptics accounts of the trial where Jesus' evasive 'you have said so' in Matthew and Luke is a plain 'I am' in Mark.
