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The other day my teenage cousin asked me this question. It's a question I have never personally thought much about because my understanding of my religion (Christianity) is that bad things happen to Christians all the time and God never promises they won't suffer. In fact, I believe at several points the Bible specifically warns Christians that they will be targeted by tragedy. Many of the Disciples died in horrible ways, after all. So I never gave it any serious consideration before he asked me this. Oddly, an answer popped immediately into my head. I didn't need to even think about it and simply spat this out:
"Bad things happen to people because God gave people free will. Every day we make small, seemingly innocent decisions which will inevitably lead to tragedy for us or for someone else. If we didn't have free will, God could simply put us where He wanted us where nothing bad would ever happen. Since we have free will, we put ourselves where we want to be and we need to take responsibility for our decisions. Hopefully we see the warning signs of disasters and avoid danger, but we always have to remember that we're the ones who put ourselves in that position; not God. I think God gives us signs and it's our fault if we overlook, misunderstand or ignore them. And even if we follow all the rules, we can't be certain other humans will do the same. When another person chooses by their own free will to hurt someone or be careless, the result is still due to humans having free will. I don't think it's luck, either. I find the "crap happens" dismissal just as unsatisfactory as the "it's God's will do not question" sort of response. Perhaps deep down I feel like there doesn't need to be a reason for things to happen, and not everything is God's will, because we have wills of our own which determine our fate, and even the fates of those whom our choices affect. Free will is a double edged sword which we need to wield cautiously."
Then he asked me what bad decision makes little kids have birth defects and "stuff like that." I automatically responded again:
"I know birth defects or certain handicaps can happen if the mother and father don't take proper care of the fetus during pregnancy. I don't know what the Bible says about genetic diseases in general, but I'm also not sure if science has a full grasp of how they function yet, either. Genetics and various forms of biology are fields of study where there is still a lot we don't know... It's possible that many of them could be brought on by some of the pollutants, hormones or chemicals we put in food which we think are good for us. Not too long ago, people had no idea that smoking while pregnant could cause birth defects. So, who knows what the future might unveil about how our lifestyles have contributed to things we blame genetics, science, fate or God for? I don't see blaming God for those things as being much different from people blaming witchcraft or demons for things that we now know are natural phenomenons. Humans have a tendency to try to explain things they don't understand through superstitions or whatever they have on hand that makes the most sense to them based on the limited data they're aware of. That doesn't necessarily mean they actually know the truth, though, since we're constantly redefining the world through scientific innovations and discoveries."
Then he asked me why people get terminal diseases like Alzheimer's and I said:
"You know, we're all going to die from something like that eventually. Whether it's a sickness or we simply nod off in the night never to wake up, it's inevitable. I don't mean to scare you by saying that or bring you down, but it's true. I don't think death itself is scary since we're all going to go through it. I guess the method of dying or when we die is the problem, isn't it? I don't want to suffer or be debilitated and I don't want to die young since there are many things on Earth I want to do first. Not getting to do them seems like a horrible tragedy to me because they're all I know. The experiences I've had or want to have on Earth are the only realities I understand so the idea of losing that upsets me in ways that are hard to put into words. It's strange, isn't it? God gave us such a strong instinct to live and make the most out of lives that we deep down know are only temporary. To me, our attachment to life is odder than the existence of those sorts of diseases. If my life is cut short or I miss out on things because I was suffering too much to experience them, I wonder if I will still feel that way after I am dead. It might be akin to the anxiety one gets when confronted with a big change from what they're familiar with... but I think I'll probably be much happier after I'm dead. If I understand the concept of Heaven correctly, I won't miss Earth even though that seems insane while I'm here. So... I guess what I'm saying is that terminal, painful diseases only seem like a bad thing or a horrible tragedy because we can only understand happiness by Earth's standards. Like... You don't miss watching Saturday morning cartoons now that you're an adult even though they were such a big deal to you as a little kid, right? That's not even close to an equivalent metaphor, but it shows that as our concepts of what is available to us expand, some things lose importance. When we die, I think our feelings about missing Earthly experiences will lose importance, too. Whether terminal diseases are actually all that much worse than other forms of death might be subjective or even inconsequential to us after death even though they seem horrible to us now... I guess you could say terminal diseases happen because everyone needs to die one way or another and all deaths seem sad to the living--some more than others--but to the person who is dead it might not be that tragic once everything is said and done if they're much happier afterward."
After that last part I told him we were getting too philosophical and I was afraid we would start contemplating the meaning of reality, perception and whether or not anything actually exists. Blah blah blah. So I called the conversation quits. I'm not sure if any of this actually answered his questions since it's all so very complicated, but when it was over I felt surprised by my responses. Like I said, I never really thought hard about these things before so to have anything remotely comprehensive pop out of my mouth was shocking. (I think that's also why during the last leg of the conversation I started ranting quite a bit.) I highly doubt this is completely solid logic I'm following since it was so spur of the moment, but I wanted to throw this out there and see what other people thought. Maybe it's an atypical opinion or something other people hadn't thought about, either. I don't know.
I'm obviously coming at this from the perspective of being a Christian, but I think this is a question most religions (or non-religions?) have to deal with at some point. I don't think my answers were based entirely on Christianity, either, since my thought process went more along the lines of believing that humans need to take responsibility rather than laying the blame at the feet of chance or a divine being whenever it's convenient to do so. I figure that most people could contribute their own perspectives on this regardless of their religious beliefs so I stuck it here in the general area.
(Some of the things in quotes are paraphrasing since I didn't exactly have a recorder with me and it was a really long conversation.)
Just from your thread title, from God's perspective - no one, own their own, is good. We may be innocent with respect to one another - but with regards to God, we are always guilty.
Because of sin (in general), there is suffering and death in the world.
We can't say for sure specifically that a specific case of suffering is directly related any particular sin(s). It may be (example John 5:14) - it may not be (example John 9).
The important thing to understand is unless we repent, we will perish - and it won't matter who suffers and who doesn't. Nobody is innocent.
Just from your thread title, from God's perspective - no one, own their own, is good. We may be innocent with respect to one another - but with regards to God, we are always guilty.
Because of sin (in general), there is suffering and death in the world.
We can't say for sure specifically that a specific case of suffering is directly related any particular sin(s). It may be (example John 5:14) - it may not be (example John 9).
The important thing to understand is unless we repent, we will perish - and it won't matter who suffers and who doesn't. Nobody is innocent.
Well-stated. I would also add that no one seems to mind when good things happen to bad people. That's just as much of an injustice.
Why do Christians let bad things happen to good people? While no one person can solve all problems there are many who can resolve or at least relieve the pain and suffering of others. Instead they question God. It is easy to do nothing and say, ''ah yes, it is God's will." How can anyone know God's will?
When you see someone in distress instead of asking, "why does God let bad things happen to good people," you should be asking, "what can I do to help?"
Just so I understand correctly concerning why the innocent suffer: one of the answers given is that it's okay because when we die, things will be so much better?
Have you - the OP - studied (and I mean, REALLY studied) the Book of Job?
Many who have not studied the book and only know of it from its framework story - and not the poetic core of the book - will immediately claim that the book is about the patience of Job. This is not the case. If anything, Job was one of the most impatient people who ever lived and he reacted quite badly to the unjust treatment he received from Yahweh (God). He was operating under what is called Retributive Justice, something that can be gleaned from the Wisdom Books (Proverbs, especially) and various Deuteronomic teachings. The teachings, in a nutshell, boiled down to this: if you were in a right relationship with God, then you were guaranteed several things - a long life, prosperity, many children, a good name, and virility up until the point you died.
Job was described as "blameless and upright" before God - in other words, he did everything correctly that was required of him to be in a right relationship with Yahweh. It even helps describe the benefits he received from this relationship:
That man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and shunned evil.
Seven sons and three daughters were born to him. His property was seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred she-asses, and many servants, so that he was the wealthiest man of all the Easterners.
(Job 1:1-3, AB Pope)
But this is all stripped away from him in an effort by the Satan to suggest that Job only loved God for the benefits he received. In other words, if these things were taken away, Job would no longer have the same sort of faith he once had. And the Satan was partially correct. The poetic section opens with Job cursing the day of his birth and wishing that he had been an aborted fetus. Strong words, but stronger words follow.
The beliefs of the ancient Israelites did not include a Heaven. They involved a prosperous life on earth, for as Qoheleth in Ecclesiastes pointed out: the fate of the wicked and the good were the same - death. After this death, everyone went to the same place: Sheol. This was not a nice place. It was a place devoid of God, where he could not intervene. Job actually wishes he could hide there until God's wrath against him passed, for he knew he would be safe there.
On the topic of a Heaven and a good afterlife, Job has no hope:
Remember my life is mere wind;
My eye will not again see good.
The eye that looks will not spy me.
Your eye will be on me, and I'll be gone.
A cloud evaporates and vanishes,
So he that goes down to Sheol does not come up;
He returns to his house no more,
His home never sees him again....
Why not pardon my fault,
Forgive my iniquity.
That I might now lie in the dust,
And you seek me but I would not be?"
(Job 7:7-10, 21)
The afterlife is not a happy place, and this is why all the promises God has made to the faithful needed to be fulfilled during their lives on earth. This is also why Job was so dang angry, and why the Book of Job is an incredible look into the problem of the suffering of the Innocent. Job was "blameless and upright" - and this is repeated 3 times. In addition, he is said to have been correct the entire time in his accusations against God being unjust.
I just don't see the use (and neither did Job or the author of Ecclesiastes) of enduring hardship with the hope that after death it will allll get better. Ecclesiastes especially rejects this very Greek philosophical idea in chapter 3 when he compares the fate of man to animals, and points out their fate is the same - and so is their destination!
Why do Christians let bad things happen to good people? While no one person can solve all problems there are many who can resolve or at least relieve the pain and suffering of others. Instead they question God. It is easy to do nothing and say, ''ah yes, it is God's will." How can anyone know God's will?
When you see someone in distress instead of asking, "why does God let bad things happen to good people," you should be asking, "what can I do to help?"
There are different degrees of distress, and different reasons for distress.
Heck - God doesn't rescue everyone, so we aren't called to rescue everyone.
Sometimes we don't have the resources to help everyone. Everyone doesn't want to be helped. Ever tried to tell someone their sin is taking them down a destructive road?
What the unsaved world needs most is this gospel. Many don't want to hear that.
But there are many things Christians do that no one ever hears about - which is the way God wants it.
The existence of human suffering is incompatible with an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god. If god is all knowing and all powerful and allows suffering, he is indifferent or sadistic and cannot be benevolent. If god is benevolent and knows about suffering then he is impotent to stop it. If god is benevolent and ignorant of some or all suffering then he is not all knowing.
A Jewish rabbi wrote a book that was popular some years back entitled When Bad Things Happen to Good People. His conclusion was that god is not all powerful. You really can't have suffering and have all three of those omni attributes.
A tri-omni god is impossible given the situation on the ground.
We live in a world that looks and behaves exactly as one would expect if god is absent, indifferent, clueless, malevolent, or non-existent. I left the Christian faith specifically to escape the cognitive dissonance of reconciling life-as-it-is with the doctrine of a tri-omni father-god. What I am left with is unlovely but at least it is comprehensible and it is real.
"Bad things happen to people because God gave people free will.
Free will is an illusion and explains nothing. What happens is down to random chance and statistics. Example, the more you commute, the higher the risk of you being in an accident no matter how careful you drive. Were you the only commuter, the risk would be essentially zero.
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Every day we make small, seemingly innocent decisions which will inevitably lead to tragedy for us or for someone else. If we didn't have free will, God could simply put us where He wanted us where nothing bad would ever happen. Since we have free will, we put ourselves where we want to be and we need to take responsibility for our decisions. Hopefully we see the warning signs of disasters and avoid danger, but we always have to remember that we're the ones who put ourselves in that position; not God. I think God gives us signs and it's our fault if we overlook, misunderstand or ignore them. And even if we follow all the rules, we can't be certain other humans will do the same. When another person chooses by their own free will to hurt someone or be careless, the result is still due to humans having free will. I don't think it's luck, either. I find the "crap happens" dismissal just as unsatisfactory as the "it's God's will do not question" sort of response.
That is the only honest short answer.
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Perhaps deep down I feel like there doesn't need to be a reason for things to happen, and not everything is God's will, because we have wills of our own which determine our fate, and even the fates of those whom our choices affect. Free will is a double edged sword which we need to wield cautiously.
You do not see the contradiction here? If there was free will and you are forced to constrain it, then it is not free will now is it. We all have to obey the laws of the land, break them and there are consequences. No one who has never done bungee jumping has ever suffered a bungee jumping accident.
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Then he asked me what bad decision makes little kids have birth defects and "stuff like that." I automatically responded again:
"I know birth defects or certain handicaps can happen if the mother and father don't take proper care of the fetus during pregnancy. I don't know what the Bible says about genetic diseases in general, but I'm also not sure if science has a full grasp of how they function yet, either. Genetics and various forms of biology are fields of study where there is still a lot we don't know... It's possible that many of them could be brought on by some of the pollutants, hormones or chemicals we put in food which we think are good for us. Not too long ago, people had no idea that smoking while pregnant could cause birth defects. So, who knows what the future might unveil about how our lifestyles have contributed to things we blame genetics, science, fate or God for? I don't see blaming God for those things as being much different from people blaming witchcraft or demons for things that we now know are natural phenomenons. Humans have a tendency to try to explain things they don't understand through superstitions or whatever they have on hand that makes the most sense to them based on the limited data they're aware of.
Genetics can be influenced by external factors which again would negate your free will supposition. If one is exposed to radiation during a pregnancy, chance are there may be defects. The same would be for pesticides or working with dangerous substances. It is also why girls have vaccinations against stuff like German measles when they hit puberty.
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That doesn't necessarily mean they actually know the truth, though, since we're constantly redefining the world through scientific innovations and discoveries."
Then he asked me why people get terminal diseases like Alzheimer's and I said:
"You know, we're all going to die from something like that eventually. Whether it's a sickness or we simply nod off in the night never to wake up, it's inevitable. I don't mean to scare you by saying that or bring you down, but it's true. I don't think death itself is scary since we're all going to go through it. I guess the method of dying or when we die is the problem, isn't it? I don't want to suffer or be debilitated and I don't want to die young since there are many things on Earth I want to do first. Not getting to do them seems like a horrible tragedy to me because they're all I know. The experiences I've had or want to have on Earth are the only realities I understand so the idea of losing that upsets me in ways that are hard to put into words. It's strange, isn't it? God gave us such a strong instinct to live and make the most out of lives that we deep down know are only temporary.
It is called survival instinct and all animals possess it, it is natural and no gods required.
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To me, our attachment to life is odder than the existence of those sorts of diseases. If my life is cut short or I miss out on things because I was suffering too much to experience them, I wonder if I will still feel that way after I am dead.
Life is finite. This is why deep down no one wants to die young but we have little say in that matter.
Quote:
It might be akin to the anxiety one gets when confronted with a big change from what they're familiar with... but I think I'll probably be much happier after I'm dead. If I understand the concept of Heaven correctly, I won't miss Earth even though that seems insane while I'm here. So... I guess what I'm saying is that terminal, painful diseases only seem like a bad thing or a horrible tragedy because we can only understand happiness by Earth's standards. Like... You don't miss watching Saturday morning cartoons now that you're an adult even though they were such a big deal to you as a little kid, right? That's not even close to an equivalent metaphor, but it shows that as our concepts of what is available to us expand, some things lose importance. When we die, I think our feelings about missing Earthly experiences will lose importance, too. Whether terminal diseases are actually all that much worse than other forms of death might be subjective or even inconsequential to us after death even though they seem horrible to us now... I guess you could say terminal diseases happen because everyone needs to die one way or another and all deaths seem sad to the living--some more than others--but to the person who is dead it might not be that tragic once everything is said and done if they're much happier afterward."
After that last part I told him we were getting too philosophical and I was afraid we would start contemplating the meaning of reality, perception and whether or not anything actually exists. Blah blah blah. So I called the conversation quits. I'm not sure if any of this actually answered his questions since it's all so very complicated, but when it was over I felt surprised by my responses. Like I said, I never really thought hard about these things before so to have anything remotely comprehensive pop out of my mouth was shocking. (I think that's also why during the last leg of the conversation I started ranting quite a bit.) I highly doubt this is completely solid logic I'm following since it was so spur of the moment, but I wanted to throw this out there and see what other people thought.
You are regurgitating what you have been taught.
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Maybe it's an atypical opinion or something other people hadn't thought about, either. I don't know.
I'm obviously coming at this from the perspective of being a Christian, but I think this is a question most religions (or non-religions?) have to deal with at some point. I don't think my answers were based entirely on Christianity, either, since my thought process went more along the lines of believing that humans need to take responsibility rather than laying the blame at the feet of chance or a divine being whenever it's convenient to do so.
Correct and this is global. ~155,000 people die each day.
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I figure that most people could contribute their own perspectives on this regardless of their religious beliefs so I stuck it here in the general area.
You may not like my answers but that is the reality we are all faced with. It does not matter if you are xian or not, anyone can get a multiplicity of diseases that are fatal and that alone should indicate that god belief does not sway the odds in your favour or visa versa.
Live by the sword die by the sword
Once again cafeteria style Christianity prevails. How convenient to think you get to pick and choose the help you give if you give any at all. If each person did nothing more than provide assistance to a person in need of which was affordable and doable there would be far far less people in need. I am not saying to give your last dollar but instead to meet the needs that present themselves that you can meet.
One prime example of this can be found in Pat Roberston, founder of the 700 Club. After quite a bit of effort I learned his net worth is somewhere between $200 million and 1 billion dollars. This Christian leader has enough money to solve most of the problem of a small country. Instead he is on TV persuading old ladies to send their last $20 to his ministry.
The Dalai lama once said, "the best argument against Christianity is Christians themselves."
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