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Imho we are all delusional, but we don't notice until we meet people that don't share our delusion.
True. Maybe it is just I who is insane, because I sometimes believe that the whole world can only be insane for doing the things they keep doing......over and over again.
Originally Posted by june 7th Odd.
Wouldn't that be the same as saying that faith itself can be insane (invented by a delusional person), but that it is okay as long as it can be rationalised? So as long as the religion was able to rationalise the visions from a delusional source, it is okay?
What is than the difference between a delusional person and a not delusional person?
I'm not sure that "faith" can arise out of reason, alone. Faith, per se, isn't exactly "logical" or even rational. I think that applying reason somehow undercuts the very nature of "faith." However, in organizing faith into a rational context, it becomes far more reasonable.
Certain types of individuals who are psychotic experience religious delusions as a componant of their psychosis. The difference is that those who are psychotic are not "rational." They have a thought disorder. As such, if you put ten schizophrenic people in a room together, they will not be able to discuss their religious delusions with one another. They do not have the real capacity to enter into one another's delusions. That is not the case with "normal" people. Ten "normal" people in a room are capable of having a very reasonable and rational conversation around the shared topic of "faith."
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
I'm not sure that "faith" can arise out of reason, alone. Faith, per se, isn't exactly "logical" or even rational. I think that applying reason somehow undercuts the very nature of "faith." However, in organizing faith into a rational context, it becomes far more reasonable.
Certain types of individuals who are psychotic experience religious delusions as a componant of their psychosis. The difference is that those who are psychotic are not "rational." They have a thought disorder. As such, if you put ten schizophrenic people in a room together, they will not be able to discuss their religious delusions with one another. They do not have the real capacity to enter into one another's delusions. That is not the case with "normal" people. Ten "normal" people in a room are capable of having a very reasonable and rational conversation around the shared topic of "faith."
Awesome response June, and very rational too
So could it be that we need a bit of reason to have faith? otherwise it would be pure insanity. But add reason to the equation and then you have faith whether is faith in spirit or not, like someone else mentioned you can have faith that this will be your lucky day, or have faith that rain won't fall today, you can also might have very good reasons to have faith in that and sometimes that faith is so strong that things do happen, that makes faith, true faith a powerful force imho
That is not the case with "normal" people. Ten "normal" people in a room are capable of having a very reasonable and rational conversation around the shared topic of "faith."
True, but there are people who want to be crucified for some (religious?) reason. Like they do in the Philippines. I dunno, I do not find this behaviour 'normal' tho.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D
Originally Posted by june 7thTrue, but there are people who want to be crucified for some (religious?) reason. Like they do in the Philippines. I dunno, I do not find this behaviour 'normal' tho.
[quote=june 7th;1960342]I don't feel that "faith" is rational. But I do feel that the organizing of it, the belief systems that are created around faith are. They need to be.[/quotI
Imo, faith is rational, and my belief is rational..It makes little difference to me whether anyone else thinks I am rational or not..I think the irrationality comes from the belief systems of mass amounts of people seeking answers from each other instead of from God..
Hmmm imho that would be faith without reason or fanatism, who agrees?
Well the violence is only focused inwards and not on others and I suspect that they do this for a reason.
I mean maybe they want to be crucified as some sort of repentance or they want to be crucified because they believe that God will then smile favourably upon them or something. I mean they must at least be (very?) desperate for something in order to go through the trial of a crucifixion.
Originally Posted by june 7thTrue, but there are people who want to be crucified for some (religious?) reason. Like they do in the Philippines. I dunno, I do not find this behaviour 'normal' tho.
I never could decide if God is pleased with this or not..IMO, Jesus was the sacrifice..The final one..He would maybe be more pleased if we would talk about why he was on the cross and what it means for us..God sees us in pain each day be cause of sin..Why would he be pleased at self torture? No loving Father would be pleased watching his child deliberately hurting himself thinking he was pleasing Him
No loving Father would be pleased watching his child deliberately hurting himself thinking he was pleasing Him
True, but the problem here is that it involves Christians, Roman Catholics to be specific, who believe that God is sacrificing his son who also is God.
The fact of God sacrificing Himself doesn't make sense, because God is the beginning and the end, so He cannot sacrifice Himself. If God would truly sacrifice Himself it would mean the end of creation.
So to me, the concept of the Holy Trinity makes the sacrifice of Jesus completely illogical. This is why I don't believe that Jesus is God, only that he was truly inspired by God. So Jesus as the truth became a path to God, like Ghandi, Muhammad, Buddha or whoever and whatever else became inspired by the truth.
Perhaps within certain cultural contexts, when faith is turned inwards for seemingly outward gain, it thus becomes irrational.
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Maybe it is just I who is insane, because I sometimes believe that the whole world can only be insane for doing the things they keep doing......over and over again.
Odd.
So as long as the religion was able to rationalise the visions from a delusional source, it is okay?
I dunno, I do not find this behaviour 'normal' tho.
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