Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What does the word "morals" mean in America?
The first thing that comes to mind is sex, in its various forms.
Ask people how they define morals, and most likely they will respond with opinions concerning sexual behavior.
In America, it seems that "morals" deals exclusively with sexual behavior.
I was wondering about other concepts, such as lying, cheating (not in the sexual sense), greed, bearing false witness, sanctimony, social and political smearing...do they come under the realm of "morals"?
My challenge is this; can you discuss morals WITHOUT mentioning anything about sexual behavior? (Examples of sexual behavior would be: abortion, porno, birth control, homosexuality, promiscuity, pre-marital sex, etc.)
With this challenge do you feel that rug has been pulled out from under your feet?
Your position of what morality means in America is interesting,but not exactly accurate in my opinion. I think u are selling Americans short. When I began reading your post I thought of the Bible...nothing else. The subject matter of morality encompasses the whole of human behavior. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines moral as "1. Characterized by excellence in what pertains to practice or conduct; right and proper. 2. Dealing or cconcerned with establishing principles of right and wrong in behavior; ethical; as, moral philosophy." What is moral is not confined to one element of human behavior even in America. For the purpose of this challenge I will omit one particular aspect of human behavior. The nature of humanity is to believe in its own goodness. I wonder how did we get to be so good? I think we are living under strong delusion. The Bible says only God is good. Therefore, God alone sets the standard for right and wrong, moral and immoral. Only God is right. If humanity rejects God, man is left to his own devices. This is what has happened in America. The lines of right and wrong have become blurred and every man does what is right in his or her own eyes. We are free moral agents-antything goes. The problem is there is no moral authority. Is lying wrong or any of the other behviors u listed? If you say yes, by whose authority are you saying it? Across the board society accepts corruption, injustice and deception as part of life. There is no moral absolute. I personally believe morality has declined in America because we have neglected the Christian faith and principles this nation was founded upon. This concludes my discussion and I hope I answered your challenge effectively
It would, indeed, be arrogant and ignorant to claim that people cannot be good without belief in God. But that was not the question.
The question was: can we be good without God? If morality is just a human convention, then why should we act morally, especially when it conflicts with self-interest? Or are we in some way held accountable for our moral decisions and actions?
We might act in precisely the same ways that we do in fact act, but in the absence of God, such actions would no longer count as good (or evil), since if God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
Here's a video clip that explains it better than I can write it here. It's not that long. Watch it and then let me know what you think.
Historically God as we (Christains Hindus Muslims Etc Etc) know it today might very well have a connection with morality but this does not explain how pre God civilisations managed to co-habit successfully.
I think the speaker in your clip made a few leaps of faith.
However, it is agreed that as an Atheist since I do not believe in God then God does not exist.
Historically God as we (Christains Hindus Muslims Etc Etc) know it today might very well have a connection with morality but this does not explain how pre God civilisations managed to co-habit successfully.
I think the speaker in your clip made a few leaps of faith.
However, it is agreed that as an Atheist since I do not believe in God then God does not exist.
pre-God civilizations? Is it not the same as saying those that lived during the Old Testament? Heard of Moses, Abraham, etc?
Famenity, what is preventing you to no go out and torture a child? How about running your own Nazi concentration camp? They wouldn't be morally wrong? Why would it matter to do those things? Who says they are right and wrong? Why would these things be wrong?
Famenity, what is preventing you to no go out and torture a child? How about running your own Nazi concentration camp? They wouldn't be morally wrong? Why would it matter to do those things? Who says they are right and wrong? Why would these things be wrong?
You mean like kill 'm all and let God sort them out later?
pre-God civilizations? Is it not the same as saying those that lived during the Old Testament? Heard of Moses, Abraham, etc?
Famenity, what is preventing you to no go out and torture a child? How about running your own Nazi concentration camp? They wouldn't be morally wrong? Why would it matter to do those things? Who says they are right and wrong? Why would these things be wrong?
Moses? of course, but was referring to times much before the Stone Age, wev'e been here a very long time, God not so long, unless you count the Fire God and Sun God etc etc. Even though an Atheist I respect anyones beliefs in any god of their choosing.
Torture a child?
I don't need God to tell me that is wrong, and after a trip to Belson take it from me one cannot be glib about this subject.
Torture a child?
I don't need God to tell me that is wrong, and after a trip to Belson take it from me one cannot be glib about this subject.
But why would it be wrong? You can't hide from it. Deep down, you know it's wrong. Where does this feeling come from? It's not a product of evolution or culture. If atheism is true, objective moral values do not exist. If God does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values? More particularly, what is the basis for the value of human beings?
Morality is NOT just an aid to survival and reproduction. If life ends at the grave, it makes no difference whether one lives as a Stalin or as a saint.
But why would it be wrong? You can't hide from it. Deep down, you know it's wrong. Where does this feeling come from? It's not a product of evolution or culture. If atheism is true, objective moral values do not exist. If God does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values? More particularly, what is the basis for the value of human beings?
Morality is NOT just an aid to survival and reproduction. If life ends at the grave, it makes no difference whether one lives as a Stalin or as a saint.
I really cannot agree with your last assertion, life is it's own justification and killing babies (for instance) does not answer evolutions demands.
However who am I to say that our form of life is the ultimate survivor, it might peter out sooner or later leaving another less thought of life form to carry on the cudgels for us. There is plenty of life on this Planet of every variety, at least one of which will survive whatever catastrophe overtakes the Earth.
To claim that God had anything to do with the origin of morality, is to claim that the early peoples of this Earth had no morality. This view has no basis in fact.
Human life as a form can safely be said to have a finite existence, just as it had a beginning so it will have an end, even Christians admit the necessity of a human birth to give rise to a soul and so it is with morality, entirely a function of being human.
If morality was dependent on God it would exist without human life and it is unlikely anyone will disprove this empirically.
Where does this feeling come from? It's not a product of evolution or culture. If atheism is true, objective moral values do not exist. If God does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values?
If naturalism is true, it becomes impossible to condemn war, oppression, or crime as evil. Nor can one praise brotherhood, equality, or love as good. It does not matter what values you choose—for there is no right and wrong; good and evil do not exist. That means that an atrocity like the Holocaust was really morally indifferent. You may think that it was wrong, but your opinion has no more validity than that of the Nazi war criminal who thought it was good.
The fact is that we do apprehend objective values, and we all know it. Actions like rape, torture, child abuse, and brutality are not just socially unacceptable behavior—they are moral abominations. By the same token, love, generosity, equality, and self-sacrifice are really good. Thus, the existence of objective moral values serves to demonstrate the existence of God.
WHen people ask me why I am a Christian, I tell them that it is because it's the most plausible faith (vs atheism). When you take into account objective moral values, the plausibility of the universe being created (from nothing, nothing comes--thefore, something created it), the super fine-tuning of the universe and the resurrection of Jesus Christ (95% of New Testament scholars agree the resurrection happened), among other things, is much more plausible than anything that atheism has to offer.
Last edited by doss1; 10-23-2007 at 09:38 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You mean like kill 'm all and let God sort them out later?
