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I can just see the parents smiling and telling their 12 1/12 year old:
Honey, we'd like to tell you about the love of God as we tuck you in bed tonight.
Child: Oh goodie!
Parents: Honey, you know we love you, right?
Child: Of course.
Parents: Well you know God loves you too?
Child: I'm not sure.
Parents: Well, *grin* we'd like to tell you about God's love. You see, honey, it's not quite like our love. God only loves you as long as you love Him.
Child: You love me even if I am bad?
Parents: Of course!
Child: Would you love me even if I hated you?
Parents: Of course!
Child: So, umm, you are telling me you love me more than God?
Parents: How dare you talk about God like that!
Child: (crying now) but mommy and daddy you just said: . . .
Parents: We know what we said! You have to be careful what you say! He's listening!
Child: What is He going to do if I don't love Him?
Parents: well honey, we think you are old enough to understand this: It's like this . . . . you know mean mister Mathers down the road?
Child: Yea! I sure do!
Parents: It would be like he would build a huge bon fire in his back yard and if you didn't like him he would take you and tie you up and torture you and keep you alive as long as he could just to get a kick out of torturing you. And we would have to just stand by and let him.
Child: You'd let him do that to me?
Parents: Well, if we said anything he'd torture us too. It's better honey if just one of us gets toasted rather than all of us. You understand, right?
Child: I think I don't like this God you love. As a matter of fact I think he is one sick being that you should loath rather than love.
Parents: Oh honey! Don't say that! Tell us you love Him!!!!! You tell us right now!!!!
Child: No! I hate Him! I hate Him! I hate Him!
Parents: We will have to take you to the pastor tomorrow so he can explain it better. Just sleep on it tonight honey.
And thus continues the story. Will they break the child? Will the parents see the wisdom of their child? Will the readers of this see the obvious? Stay tuned for how this is going to turn out!
I can just see the parents smiling and telling their 12 1/12 year old:
Honey, we'd like to tell you about the love of God as we tuck you in bed tonight.
Child: Oh goodie!
Parents: Honey, you know we love you, right?
Child: Of course.
Parents: Well you know God loves you too?
Child: I'm not sure.
Parents: Well, *grin* we'd like to tell you about God's love. You see, honey, it's not quite like our love. God only loves you as long as you love Him.
Child: You love me even if I am bad?
Parents: Of course!
Child: Would you love me even if I hated you?
Parents: Of course!
Child: So, umm, you are telling me you love me more than God?
Parents: How dare you talk about God like that!
Child: (crying now) but mommy and daddy you just said: . . .
Parents: We know what we said! You have to be careful what you say! He's listening!
Child: What is He going to do if I don't love Him?
Parents: well honey, we think you are old enough to understand this: It's like this . . . . you know mean mister Mathers down the road?
Child: Yea! I sure do!
Parents: It would be like he would build a huge bon fire in his back yard and if you didn't like him he would take you and tie you up and torture you and keep you alive as long as he could just to get a kick out of torturing you. And we would have to just stand by and let him.
Child: You'd let him do that to me?
Parents: Well, if we said anything he'd torture us too. It's better honey if just one of us gets toasted rather than all of us. You understand, right?
Child: I think I don't like this God you love. As a matter of fact I think he is one sick being that you should loath rather than love.
Parents: Oh honey! Don't say that! Tell us you love Him!!!!! You tell us right now!!!!
Child: No! I hate Him! I hate Him! I hate Him!
Parents: We will have to take you to the pastor tomorrow so he can explain it better. Just sleep on it tonight honey.
And thus continues the story. Will they break the child? Will the parents see the wisdom of their child? Will the readers of this see the obvious? Stay tuned for how this is going to turn out!
In fairness [sigh] there is a minority viewpoint within Christianity that consistently presents the love of god as at least as stable and unconditional and uncapricious as the love of human parents. It does this by denying a literal hell and, generally, a personal Satan, by removing the petty, insecure, vindictive, sadistic aspects of god and turning him into a progressive / egalitarian. In order to do this, it has to reject most conservative dogma and thus clings to life mostly in mainline liberal denominations and near-heretical groups like the Unitarians, but it does exist. Regrettably it must still account at least perfunctorily for the suffering in the world and thus this hip sort of god ends up more like a slightly daft, absent-minded yet genial grandfather with one of the three rungs of theodicy ripped away, usually the omnipotent one. Then there is the completely absent, uninvolved god of the deists, which is at least consistent with observable reality, yet -- what is the point of such a god who is indistinguishable in practice from no god at all?
What we end up discussing here though is generally the cranky warlord version of god, and as depicted in the OP it is a necessary antidote to the logical inconsistencies of such a deity.
Wonder how the Jewish talk goes. They have demon angels.
"According to a (mystical) view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created.
Only the utterly wicked are punished for the entire 12 months and some sources say that the utterly wicked soul ceases to exist, while other sources say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse." Do jews believe there is a hell?
I can just see the parents smiling and telling their 12 1/12 year old:
Honey, we'd like to tell you about the love of God as we tuck you in bed tonight.
Child: Oh goodie!
Parents: Honey, you know we love you, right?
Child: Of course.
Parents: Well you know God loves you too?
Child: I'm not sure.
Parents: Well, *grin* we'd like to tell you about God's love. You see, honey, it's not quite like our love. God only loves you as long as you love Him.
Child: You love me even if I am bad?
Parents: Of course!
Child: Would you love me even if I hated you?
Parents: Of course!
Child: So, umm, you are telling me you love me more than God?
Parents: How dare you talk about God like that!
Child: (crying now) but mommy and daddy you just said: . . .
Parents: We know what we said! You have to be careful what you say! He's listening!
Child: What is He going to do if I don't love Him?
Parents: well honey, we think you are old enough to understand this: It's like this . . . . you know mean mister Mathers down the road?
Child: Yea! I sure do!
Parents: It would be like he would build a huge bon fire in his back yard and if you didn't like him he would take you and tie you up and torture you and keep you alive as long as he could just to get a kick out of torturing you. And we would have to just stand by and let him.
Child: You'd let him do that to me?
Parents: Well, if we said anything he'd torture us too. It's better honey if just one of us gets toasted rather than all of us. You understand, right?
Child: I think I don't like this God you love. As a matter of fact I think he is one sick being that you should loath rather than love.
Parents: Oh honey! Don't say that! Tell us you love Him!!!!! You tell us right now!!!!
Child: No! I hate Him! I hate Him! I hate Him!
Parents: We will have to take you to the pastor tomorrow so he can explain it better. Just sleep on it tonight honey.
And thus continues the story. Will they break the child? Will the parents see the wisdom of their child? Will the readers of this see the obvious? Stay tuned for how this is going to turn out!
Here is the REAL issue Eusebius: You need to get over trying to figure out why people are so into things you aren't, and like things you don't.
In your "story" you gave an analogy. I'll use a few to help explain what I'm trying to explain to you.
I own an adult nightclub as one of my businesses, so I listen to music that young people like for over forty hours a week. I remember when I first heard "gangsta rap" music. I thought to myself, "how could anyone possibly like this at all, let alone be just about consumed with how much they are into it?".
I asked some of the girls what there was about it that appealed so much to them. They would always just say, "It's *rap music*, it's THE BEST!".
So I tried using analogies. I said, "What if you went to the ballet and the dancers came out and just walked back and forth across the stage in time to a simple beat...no leaps, or spins, or any of that. When you ask, "What's up with that?", they explained, "Oh, that's "stride dancing", it's awesome". Would you find that acceptable and still think it was worth paying the same as you would to see the Bolshi?"
What if you went to a fine restaurant, and when they brought your meal, it was a piece of plain bread and a glass of tap water...and when you inquired as to what that was, they said, "that's *basic cuisine*, it's really great". Would you eat it, pay the same as you would for chateaubriand, then go back for more?
They just shake their head and say, "You just don't understand, I love it, it's the best!"
I also supply girls and financial capital to projects in the pornography industry. The industry is a 100 BILLION dollar a year industry. More than ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, the NFL, MLB, and the NBA, COMBINED.
Obviously there is an incredible amount of people buying a lot of pornography...but who have you ever heard, when asked, "What hobbies do you enjoy and what do like to do during your free time?", say, "Oh I like to watch porn a real lot, I'm really into it"?
I don't like porn myself...I think it's disgusting that anyone would like seeing that stuff...much of it not only doesn't turn me on, it turns me off and grosses me out. Obviously I'm of a very small minority. I have no idea what so many people see in it to have it be so prolifically popular...but that doesn't change that IT IS.
The same with religion/spirituality. I don't see what people are so into about it...but THEY ARE. Especially the "afterlife rewards/punishment" brand of religion. They are so into it...it has become ingrained in the culture, custom, and traditions of their societies.
Look, man...just because you can't figure out what the appeal is, doesn't change the fact that there IS great appeal to it...and that would be GREAT APPEAL!
So, you can drive yourself bonkers going, "why, why, why, why, why?"...or you can just accept that most people don't think like you do, most people are into something you aren't, and they relate to something you don't. OR you can spend hours upon hours of your precious life...posting to internet forums, mocking, insulting, and making wiseguy comments along with the few others that get all tweaked out over the fact so many people are very into something they're not. Or maybe...they perceive/know something you don't.
GldnRule, my post was not about me trying to figure out why people like what they like about their specific religion. It was merely meant to poke a most major hole in what they perceive as a "loving" God. I've been in their ideology and know what they believe and why. They believe the way they were told to believe or else face eternal torture from this mischaracterization they claim is "God."
As a young man I was told by someone, and others, preaching at me (before I was saved) "You better believe in God or you are going to go to hell for eternity!). So I would just impolitely cuss them up one side and down the other and that was that. But the attraction to love such a despicable ogre just never did attract me to "love" such an unlovable being. The only reason they love such a being is they have been duped into loving Him ***or else!***.
I do love God but it is not the god the majority of Christendumb love. My God does love unconditionally, doesn't torture humans in fire and eventually will save all mankind (1 Timothy 2:4-6) because Christ ransomed all. Ain't that too kool?
I can just see the parents smiling and telling their 12 1/12 year old:
Honey, we'd like to tell you about the love of God as we tuck you in bed tonight.
Child: Oh goodie!
Parents: Honey, you know we love you, right?
Child: Of course.
Parents: Well you know God loves you too?
Child: I'm not sure.
Parents: Well, *grin* we'd like to tell you about God's love. You see, honey, it's not quite like our love. God only loves you as long as you love Him.
I don't know what theology you're trying to portray here, but that's not Christianity. The Bible teaches us that God loves us first. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. He foreknew me, and then he predestined me, and called me.
I don't know what theology you're trying to portray here, but that's not Christianity. The Bible teaches us that God loves us first. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. He foreknew me, and then he predestined me, and called me.
I couldn't stand to read any more of your post, to be honest.
Vizio, I agree with you as to what you wrote. However, there are many many "Christians" who believe in the above scenario. Just because you don't does not mean they don't. But I appreciate your thoughts.
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