Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think God in the structured religious sense is complete BS, I wouldn't rule out a God of some other entity that we know nothing about. The laws of the Universe have to be explained after all.
As an inquisitive person, I like a good debate, and I have a clearly defined position so I like to discuss it with others who have contrasting viewpoints.
Ghostofrand.......Some DO know that he was made up by humans (you ought not to use we as you can't talk for others)...except for maybe some angry "dumb as dirt christian types" (your words)....and the atheists I know, are not real "super brainy" types, just normal inquisitive, respectful people...like some christians I know
No purehuman, you do not KNOW God was made up by humans. It is impossible for you to KNOW, frankly, same as its impossible for me to KNOW he wasnt made up. The only way you could KNOW is if you could PROVE, without doubt, that there is no God. And WE all know you cant do this, or you would have already done so.
Now, you can STRONGLY BELIEVE that God was created by humans. Or have a "gut feel" about it. Or "know" it, in your heart. You can be even be "pretty darn sure" of it. But you cant KNOW. Its why I capitalized the word "Know". To make sure others understood my use of the word.
So, even though you think you KNOW, you dont really KNOW. See?
I never said all atheists were super brainy types. I just said they boasted about their intelligence alot. BIG difference.
It would appear subtleties are not your strong suit. Something for you to work on.
Now, you can STRONGLY BELIEVE that God was created by humans. Or have a "gut feel" about it. Or "know" it, in your heart. You can be even be "pretty darn sure" of it. But you cant KNOW.
I don't KNOW that there are not sentient beings on Proxima Centauri who look like Victorian lampshades. Nor do you. But I doubt that either of us orders our lives around that remote possibility.
I could pick any inherently unprovable assertion, however fanciful, and cite the fact that no one can disprove it with total certainty as a reason to believe it. What is more compelling about your particular fanciful assertion over any other one? Personally I think that it inhabits a sweet spot in our subjective subconscious that really begs for fill-in-the-gap explanations. Even if we both agreed on that, we would probably disagree about the significance of that fact. I'd say it's an evolutionary glitch that ill serves us now that we no longer live on the savannah and have to elude various predators, and you'd say god made us that way to draw us to him, or some such.
And that's okay, I have no problem with other people's ideas or illusions. At the end of the day we all do what we gotta do to get through to the next day. I certainly don't think I have everything figured out and probably have my own blind spots. All people like me ask is to be afforded the same dignity -- the right to be left alone and have my personal convictions be respected and not have others ideas imposed upon me to make the majority more comfortable.
Do you suppose that we could agree on THAT, even if it means, per your belief system, that I'm hell-bound? Or do I represent some kind of threat that must be wiped out?
I don't KNOW that there are not sentient beings on Proxima Centauri who look like Victorian lampshades. Nor do you. But I doubt that either of us orders our lives around that remote possibility.
Do you suppose that we could agree on THAT, even if it means, per your belief system, that I'm hell-bound? Or do I represent some kind of threat that must be wiped out?
Well said, and right on...thankyou for that!. and yes, that should be something we could all agree on.
I don't KNOW that there are not sentient beings on Proxima Centauri who look like Victorian lampshades. Nor do you. But I doubt that either of us orders our lives around that remote possibility.
I could pick any inherently unprovable assertion, however fanciful, and cite the fact that no one can disprove it with total certainty as a reason to believe it. What is more compelling about your particular fanciful assertion over any other one? Personally I think that it inhabits a sweet spot in our subjective subconscious that really begs for fill-in-the-gap explanations. Even if we both agreed on that, we would probably disagree about the significance of that fact. I'd say it's an evolutionary glitch that ill serves us now that we no longer live on the savannah and have to elude various predators, and you'd say god made us that way to draw us to him, or some such.
And that's okay, I have no problem with other people's ideas or illusions. At the end of the day we all do what we gotta do to get through to the next day. I certainly don't think I have everything figured out and probably have my own blind spots. All people like me ask is to be afforded the same dignity -- the right to be left alone and have my personal convictions be respected and not have others ideas imposed upon me to make the majority more comfortable.
Do you suppose that we could agree on THAT, even if it means, per your belief system, that I'm hell-bound? Or do I represent some kind of threat that must be wiped out?
Oh please. This whole idea that the "normal" Christian seeks to impose their beliefs on anyone is absurd. Do the Christian police come knocking on your door Sunday morning? Do you get harassing phone calls about your lack of belief? Do you feel your life is at risk from angry Christians who disapprove of your "lifestyle"? No, no and no.
While Christians may be against some "modernities" ie gay marriage, this doesnt mean they wish ill to all who support it. And last I checked freedom meant the ability to have and express different opinions, regardless of their origination.
"Normal" christians understand this is america and there is freedom of (non)religion. No one I know says otherwise. Not to mention, a "belief" imposed is not really a belief at all, is it? And no true Christians talk about "wiping out" others because of belief issues. Do you see any evidence Christians are anything like the sunni versus shia in the muslim world? Car bombings? Assaults on houses of non worship? You dont have to be Christian to be against a strip club opening up down the street. And lone terrorists acting out ie abortion clinic attacks, are clearly outliers.
I get what you are saying about "fanciful assertions" but I would say Christianity has a tad more validity than that. A heavily studied 2000 year old text, historical references, billions of believers, including some great minds, like CS Lewis, are a "better bet" than purple unicorns, in my book at least.
Again, Im sure your thoughts are logical and sensible to you, and are all you need to dismiss Christian belief. That is fine. What happens to you after death is for you to ponder. Being in a truly Christian relationship with our savior does not come about through fear of death or acting in one's self interest. Those who think so dont understand Christianity.
"Oh please. This whole idea that the "normal" Christian seeks to impose their beliefs on anyone is absurd. Do the Christian police come knocking on your door Sunday morning? Do you get harassing phone calls about your lack of belief? Do you feel your life is at risk from angry Christians who disapprove of your "lifestyle"? No, no and no"
I'm sure not to linger in this thread but for the time being..... I'm also fascinated ....
..where are these Christians? Aside from the pointless, circular debates that can be found on message boards and perhaps a few discussions with family or friends(and, aren't they outright avoidable) where are the bible-thumping Jesus freaks that are so threatening the lifestyle of unbelievers? I'm certain there is a bit of internal hysteria going on in the minds of some people.
My own father was an atheist, agnostic, I have no idea he didn't clearly define it for me as a child. He simply stated he didn't believe in God and if it were up to him I'd never step a foot in church(I was not raised in his home). I loved him to bits. Have a lot of great daddy's little girl memories. Yet, as a child, teen and adult we held stark different beliefs concerning "religion" as I do with mostly all of my paternal side of the family. Thanksgiving was still a most enjoyable time! My husband, 11 year old son and I were one of the only Christians in attendance of about 25-30 people. I felt and feel no threat from them as my family nor the folk I work with everyday and vice-versa (what I believe is not hidden from anyone).
So, where is the threat? Last checked people are still drinking, drugging and sexing whom and whatever. Has the porn business suffered much? people feel freer more now than ever to marry divorce, re-marry, or not marry at all! I've had 2 or 3 discussions with my SIL's regarding their beliefs as JW's. It was decided, they ain't changing my view and theirs weren't changing! great, now let's fire up the grill!
Regarding the OP, many more people then care to admit are fascinated by God. And He knows! And smiles
I get what you are saying about "fanciful assertions" but I would say Christianity has a tad more validity than that. A heavily studied 2000 year old text, historical references, billions of believers, including some great minds, like CS Lewis, are a "better bet" than purple unicorns, in my book at least.
Appeal to Authority: FAIL.
Quote:
Again, Im sure your thoughts are logical and sensible to you, and are all you need to dismiss Christian belief. That is fine. What happens to you after death is for you to ponder. Being in a truly Christian relationship with our savior does not come about through fear of death or acting in one's self interest. Those who think so dont understand Christianity.
Another colossal FAIL. Of course it is. Without the odious and disgraceful concept of hell, there is absolutely no need for a savior. Don't tell me I don't understand Christianity. I'll tell you what, have your cult preachers start preaching that hell doesn't exist and see how fast your churches empty.
Oh please. This whole idea that the "normal" Christian seeks to impose their beliefs on anyone is absurd.
I guess the push to have Creationism taught in schools and the push to suppress gay rights shouldn't be counted as Christians pushing their beliefs on others.
Well, at least prayer ain't goin on in schools, right?
BOOhoooo
ETA: and the push to hand-out condoms to un-wed children like lollipops. Right! everyone has an agenda......?!?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) where are the bible-thumping Jesus freaks that are so threatening the lifestyle of unbelievers? I'm certain there is a bit of internal hysteria going on in the minds of some people. 
