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I was sitting around a campfire last week having a discussion about religion with a friend of mine and he was talking about how the bible condones slavery. He had a lot of interesting things to say that backed up such a bold statement.
after doing a little research when I got home I found that much of what he said was true. So what is your take on this?
Here are just a few examples
"neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor’s"
Peter 2:18: "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel."
[LEFT]Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)[/LEFT]
There were extensive laws concerning slaves, how they were to be treated, who could be slaves, the Jubilee year, etc. In many ways, the slavery laws in the Torah were an improvement over extra-Biblical slavery laws - so there is at least that. In addition to laws, it's very clear that many characters owned slaves.
Being a product of it's time (where slavery was the norm), it isn't that surprising to find it within. Both "Old" and "New" Testaments were written in times and places where slavery was a normal part of culture.
One could criticize it because of this, but this would be misguided and too easy. Projecting modern ideas of ethics back onto an ancient text, and then condemning them for not living up to our standards is not exactly a good way of viewing the past. I remember reading a book about Athens where the author declared it to be the best city-state that ever existed - but he was declaring this because it had a form of Democracy, and this form of government is what the author considered "the best". He then proceeded to chastise ancient Athens for condoning both slavery and less rights for women. His modern views were guiding his examination of an ancient people, and he essentially put them on the stand for his views.
That is a good cautionary tale against condemning ancient peoples for what we now consider unethical.
slavery and owning another human being is always cruel and inhumane
Okay. I'm not sure whether the thread topic was "what do you think of slavery?" I don't think you'll find many people who disagree with you, however.
With that said, there were many forms of slavery in different times that are not the same as the slavery we think about (we automatically, as Westerners, tend to equate our experience with slavery of Africans as a good measuring stick for ALL types of slavery - when this just isn't so). We have to be careful there. Many types of slavery were a result of not paying one's debts: one would "sell" oneself to someone to work off the debt. Many types of slavery allowed the slave to earn enough money to buy his freedom. Israelite slavery commanded that slaves be set free every 7 years (whether they actually did this or not is another matter). It also protected slaves from brutal treatment: if a tooth was knocked out, for instance, the slave was automatically set free. There were provisions made for slaves who wished to remain with their masters after their time of service was up - if slavery was so brutal (as we associate our Western experience with it), it's hard to believe that someone would wilfully stay with their masters.
Anyways - there are many different types of slavery.
In the New Testament, whenever you find reference to "servants of Christ" or "God" - a better translation would actually be "Slaves". The translation "servant" was used to take away the sting of how Westerners view slavery.
And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant (eved) : but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.(Ex. 4:10)
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant (eved) of servants shall he be unto his brethren.(Gen. 9:25)
In both cases above “eved” means slave.
The gods/God created humans to be used as slaves who would work to feed and cloth the gods.
Poor Canaan, and his descendants the Canaanites, were destined from the very beginning to be the slaves to their aristocratic cousins the Israelites.
The wise redactors of the texts knew much more than the information they finally allowed to remain in the collection (if one realizes that the Canaanites were Giants!)
There were extensive laws concerning slaves, how they were to be treated, who could be slaves, the Jubilee year, etc. In many ways, the slavery laws in the Torah were an improvement over extra-Biblical slavery laws - so there is at least that. In addition to laws, it's very clear that many characters owned slaves.
Being a product of it's time (where slavery was the norm), it isn't that surprising to find it within. Both "Old" and "New" Testaments were written in times and places where slavery was a normal part of culture.
One could criticize it because of this, but this would be misguided and too easy. Projecting modern ideas of ethics back onto an ancient text, and then condemning them for not living up to our standards is not exactly a good way of viewing the past. I remember reading a book about Athens where the author declared it to be the best city-state that ever existed - but he was declaring this because it had a form of Democracy, and this form of government is what the author considered "the best". He then proceeded to chastise ancient Athens for condoning both slavery and less rights for women. His modern views were guiding his examination of an ancient people, and he essentially put them on the stand for his views.
That is a good cautionary tale against condemning ancient peoples for what we now consider unethical.
This interpretation makes a lot of sense to people who view the bible in context.
But the problem of slavery is a difficult obstacle for fundamentalist who believe the bible is literally true and hold it out as a timeless, morally absolute, ethical framework.
This interpretation makes a lot of sense to people who view the bible in context.
But the problem of slavery is a difficult obstacle for fundamentalist who believe the bible is literally true and hold it out as a timeless, morally absolute, ethical framework.
Not difficult for them at all. They just put their blinders on and ignore the passages they don't like, just as they with every other position they take.
Both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).
Okay. I'm not sure whether the thread topic was "what do you think of slavery?" I don't think you'll find many people who disagree with you, however.
With that said, there were many forms of slavery in different times that are not the same as the slavery we think about (we automatically, as Westerners, tend to equate our experience with slavery of Africans as a good measuring stick for ALL types of slavery - when this just isn't so). We have to be careful there. Many types of slavery were a result of not paying one's debts: one would "sell" oneself to someone to work off the debt. Many types of slavery allowed the slave to earn enough money to buy his freedom. Israelite slavery commanded that slaves be set free every 7 years (whether they actually did this or not is another matter). It also protected slaves from brutal treatment: if a tooth was knocked out, for instance, the slave was automatically set free. There were provisions made for slaves who wished to remain with their masters after their time of service was up - if slavery was so brutal (as we associate our Western experience with it), it's hard to believe that someone would wilfully stay with their masters.
Anyways - there are many different types of slavery.
In the New Testament, whenever you find reference to "servants of Christ" or "God" - a better translation would actually be "Slaves". The translation "servant" was used to take away the sting of how Westerners view slavery.
Whoppers, I would hasten to clarify that "Israelite slavery" as described by you up above was in reference to other Israelites. I don't think such things applied to "slaves" gotten by war and plunder, at least on paper.
Both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16).
When you look back at verse 2 in the above chapter, you realize that the verse you reference pertains to the Israelite community and does NOT seem to pertain to other cultures around them.
"If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing."
This is more likely how non-Israelites were to be dealt with:
“When you go near a city to fight against it, then proclaim an offer of peace to it. 11 And it shall be that if they accept your offer of peace, and open to you, then all the people who are found in it shall be placed under tribute to you, and serve you. 12 Now if the city will not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which the Lord your God gives you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16 “But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the Lord your God has commanded you, 18 lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against the Lord your God.
- Deuteronomy 20.
These passages are not shocking to me and the Israelites were no different than any other peoples of the time in their expectations. It was the way of life back then. I don't believe ANY god had anything to do with this either so I just see it as par for the course in those days. Now, when you start believing the bible is the perfect "word of god," you have problems here.
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