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Sorry.. just another one of my "christian guy who knows very little about this kind of stuff but is interested to learn more and has no problem asking stupid questions"
IMO we have a sort of limited free will. We are free to make our own choices and decisions, but no will is ultimately "free" of outside influence, so cannot be technically defined as "free".
IMO we have a sort of limited free will. We are free to make our own choices and decisions, but no will is ultimately "free" of outside influence, so cannot be technically defined as "free".
So we have free will to make the decisions (decisions which are affected by outside influence).
Sorry.. just another one of my "christian guy who knows very little about this kind of stuff but is interested to learn more and has no problem asking stupid questions"
When I look at a passage like this, or many others, it looks like we do have a choice with what we do with our lives...
24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Posted by jeffncandace
Quote:
IMO we have a sort of limited free will. We are free to make our own choices and decisions, but no will is ultimately "free" of outside influence, so cannot be technically defined as "free".
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Is that what you meant, jeff? I believe that we can't come to the Lord without being called, however I also believe that He calls everyone at some time in their life.
So in other words, God has given us the power of choice to reject or accept Him, with consequences for our actions.
If by Free Will, you mean the ability to do as we please, then Yes, we have Free Will.
If God controls anyone, then it's everyone, not just the Christians. If others can determine their own destinies, then so can Christians. That's the way I feel, not everyone agrees.
When you look at all the evil things that are done in this world, it's difficult to conceive that a Divine Hand is guilding wars, murders, and things like that.
To clarify what I meant...God is not directly involved, outside of occasional reasons of His own, unless we humans ask Him to be. So we are largly free IMO to make our own decisions and choices in this life.
However...each one of us is largely a creature of circumstance-what we are, and what we do, is more or less the result of our temperaments, of our inherited characteristics, of our social surroundings and of our education. This is what I mean when I say that no will is totally "free" of outside influence.
Also, consider these verses...
"Has not the Potter [God] power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto DISHONOUR?" (Rom. 9:21).
"GOD [and not man’s ‘free’ will] which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."
"The Lord has made…the WICKED for the day of EVIL" (Prov. 16:4).
"He [God] turned their heart to HATE His people…" (Psalm 105:25).
"For God locks up all together in STUBBORNNESS…" (Rom. 11:32).
"O Lord, why have You MADE us TO ERR from your ways…" (Isa. 63:17).
"Has not the Potter [God] power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto DISHONOUR?" (Rom. 9:21).
Uh, I personally would not make a comparison between a potter and the clay and God and humanity. Clay has no mind, let alone self-awareness, while people do. So what clay is to a potter is nothing like humanity is to God. Simply because clay has no free will.
Quote:
"The Lord has made…the WICKED for the day of EVIL" (Prov. 16:4).
If God has made wicked man and women, this means that God is responsible for their wicked ways and not these men and women.
Like children under 18 (depending upon their crime) are still not considered to be fully responsible for their actions. The parents are (largely) responsible for whatever their children have done.
I remember a case in Britain where there was a murder case of a 12(?) year old killing a 6(?) year old kid. Anyway the child was not completely held responsible for his actions because he was still a child.
And if a child is raised by his parents to be wicked then it is not the child's fault that it has become wicked. It is the parent's fault, because they are directly responsible for their child's upbringing.
Originally Posted by jeffncandace Uh, I personally would not make a comparison between a potter and the clay and God and humanity. Clay has no mind, let alone self-awareness, while people do. So what clay is to a potter is nothing like humanity is to God. Simply because clay has no free will.
If God has made wicked man and women, this means that God is responsible for their wicked ways and not these men and women.
Like children under 18 (depending upon their crime) are still not considered to be fully responsible for their actions. The parents are (largely) responsible for whatever their children have done.
I remember a case in Britain where there was a murder case of a 12(?) year old killing a 6(?) year old kid. Anyway the child was not completely held responsible for his actions because he was still a child.
And if a child is raised by his parents to be wicked then it is not the child's fault that it has become wicked. It is the parent's fault, because they are directly responsible for their child's upbringing.
Well, I don't know what your beliefs are, but I am simply quoting the Bible. I believe it to be truth.
We say that we believe that God created the entire world and all the people therein. Right?
To me, that means he is there for ALL of them as they see Him. Hindu, Summi, Jewish, Taoist, Quaker, Seventh Day Aventist, guy in the jungle, starving child in African, Whoever. They are part of His world.
Did He just make special rules for Christians? If Christians don't have Free Will, do others? And I am not talking about the future, I mean right now.
Circumstances and upbringing govern actions, no matter who or where. Just my 2 cents worth.
Free as in free beer (not really free just someone else gave it to you)
Free as in outside prison.
So free will = ?
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It is the parent's fault, because they are directly responsible for their child's upbringing.
