Science, "Young Earth" and Mormons... (churches, prophets, LDS)
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Being a Utah resident, my greatest experience with relgion is undoubtedly with Mormonism. I ran across this article and found it very interesting. Elder Talmage was was a big name in this state and a geologist, but believed and was a leader in a religion who's founder specifically stated the world was 7000 years old. Doctrine and Covenants 77*
Someone more "in the know" please explain to me how this is justified in someone's mind?
I've always thought Mormons weren't "young earthers" but apparently they are...or were and convienently forgot what Joseph Smith taught...
Each Mormon deals with that in his or her own way. Some will stress that Joseph starts counting those 7,000 years from the Fall of Adam and Eve, and will say that we don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden after the earth was created.
Honestly, there are several ways to deal with it. I had a Bishop at BYU who was a molecular biologist and one Sunday night he showed us his attempt to reconcile what the scriptures and church leaders said with science. It was convoluted, and did not quite fit for me, but it satisfied me enough to shelve the issue for a number of years.
The Mormons who post here like Katzpur, might give you their take on things. But, as a former Mormon, it is my observation that many Mormons just figuratively shelve this issue and many other difficult issues. They stop thinking about it and think about something else. Now, some Mormons, really do try very hard to reconcile these things, like my former Bishop and myself. Many Mormons don't know of all the genetic evidence that shows there is no way we all had a common male and female ancestor 7,000 years ago. If they don't know about it, they don't have to try to reconcile it.
A few Mormons believe in what are called pre-Adamites. This allows for evolution as science knows it to take place, including death. But then, once homo sapiens have evolved, God creates the Garden of Eden, and all death is halted, and homo sapien does not become man until God puts the spirit of a man (his spirit child) into the body of a homo sapien. That is Adam, the first man. Then the Fall happens and brings death back into the world, etc. Now, I should stress, that only a few Mormons believe this. It is not Mormon doctrine and most Mormons would have no clue what you are talking about, but it is one attempt by some Mormons to reconcile Mormon teachings with science.
Mainstream scientific theories of evolutionary biology, old-earth geology and paleontology are openly taught at BYU and BYU-Idaho, without apology, and have been for at least five decades, will full approval of BYU's Board of Trustees. What's more, a notable number of the BYU and BYU-Idaho faculty are well published in these disciplines. Two areas in which BYU researchers are particularly noted are the collection and analysis of dinosaur fossils and bioinformatics, i.e., the sequencing and analysis of DNA for studies in evolution, medicine and other applications. Undoubtedly, there are still some young-earth Mormons around, but I personally think that, at least among college-educated Mormons, they are in the minority. I have always believe in a very old earth and in evolution. It's what I was taught at home by my very LDS parents.
Mainstream scientific theories of evolutionary biology, old-earth geology and paleontology are openly taught at BYU and BYU-Idaho, without apology, and have been for at least five decades, will full approval of BYU's Board of Trustees. What's more, a notable number of the BYU and BYU-Idaho faculty are well published in these disciplines. Two areas in which BYU researchers are particularly noted are the collection and analysis of dinosaur fossils and bioinformatics, i.e., the sequencing and analysis of DNA for studies in evolution, medicine and other applications. Undoubtedly, there are still some young-earth Mormons around, but I personally think that, at least among college-educated Mormons, they are in the minority. I have always believe in a very old earth and in evolution. It's what I was taught at home by my very LDS parents.
No offense, but you are one of the most liberal, non-orthodox Mormons I know of. I was raised in a home and in a ward that if science contradicted Mormon doctrine or the teachings of Joseph Smith, it was science that was wrong. Most just tried to find some way of interpreting things so that they were not in direct conflict.
I had BYU science professors who believed in and taught evolution, but I also had BYU religion professors who believed evolution was at odds with the words of the prophets.
You were lucky to grow up in an intellectual home. I would not be surprised if you told me you read Sunstone or Dialogue. Those magazines were looked down on as heretic works just shy of anti by the mainstream Mormons I was around.
Last edited by Hueffenhardt; 04-29-2011 at 07:28 PM..
No offense, but you are one of the most liberal, non-orthodox Mormons I know of.
Uh... why would I take offense at that? I'm actually quite flattered. (That wasn't intentional, was it? )
Quote:
I was raised in a home and in a ward that if science contradicted Mormon doctrine or the teachings of Joseph Smith, it was science that was wrong. Most just tried to find some way of interpreting things so that they were not in direct conflict.
My dad was a college professor (not in the sciences, though, and not at BYU). I grew up being taught that not everything I heard somebody teach me in Sunday School or Seminary was gospel doctrine, and that questioning (even doubting) was part of the learning process. As a matter of fact, I can remember my dad getting this look: on his face more than once when I told him some of the things I'd been told. Then he'd shake his head and say (like a little Jewish woman), "Oy oy oy!"
Quote:
I had BYU science professors who believed in and taught evolution, but I also had BYU religion professors who believed evolution was at odds with the words of the prophets.
You were lucky to grow up in an intellectual home. I would not be surprised if you told me you read Sunstone or Dialogue. Those magazines were looked down on as heretic works just shy of anti by the mainstream Mormons I was around.
Yeah, I do on occasion. One of my dad's colleagues wrote an excellent article for Dialogue years back. It was called "Out of the Crucible." I still have it.
Well I wasn't raised in the church,nor do I live in utah but I don't know anyone in the church in my area who is a 'young earther'.I'm sure some exist and I haven't polled my ward on the subject but from what discussions I have been involved in I haven't heard anyone who advanced the yec point of view.
I am perhaps even a bit more non-orthodox than katzpur but I haven't really found that to be a problem.I don't really stuggle to reconcile 'everything everybody important ever said or wrote'.People,even church leaders,are still just people and are capable of being wrong,just as I am.Those in any religion who feel the need to 'reconcile everything' are doomed to either willful denial through tortured,convoluted explanations...or destined like Huef to abandon religion entirely when it is obvious through honest investigation that a lot apparent contridictions can't be logically reconciled.
I do have my 'roll my eyes moments' in church,but less so than in some other churches i've had some involvement with.For me if the general point of things is true then I feel that there is value there and it isn't important that everything spoken or written is 'literally true'.While there are people in my ward who consider everything ever spoken by a general authority to be doctrine,most aren't so glassy eyed.I find the converts who were formally fundamentalist baptists to be the most hung up on attatching 'literal truth' to everything....but even among them I haven't heard any support for YEC.I haven't found mormons,at least in my area,to be particularly monolithic in their views on issues.For the most part they are content to have their take and let you have yours on most issues.
Mainstream scientific theories of evolutionary biology, old-earth geology and paleontology are openly taught at BYU and BYU-Idaho, without apology, and have been for at least five decades, will full approval of BYU's Board of Trustees. What's more, a notable number of the BYU and BYU-Idaho faculty are well published in these disciplines. Two areas in which BYU researchers are particularly noted are the collection and analysis of dinosaur fossils and bioinformatics, i.e., the sequencing and analysis of DNA for studies in evolution, medicine and other applications. Undoubtedly, there are still some young-earth Mormons around, but I personally think that, at least among college-educated Mormons, they are in the minority. I have always believe in a very old earth and in evolution. It's what I was taught at home by my very LDS parents.
I was taught that humans were created by God and that we weren't ever monkeys, but it doesn't damage my faith to think that our species could have evolved into what God wanted us to be. I've heard dozens of ways that religion and science could work out in this instance, but I'm OK with saying I don't know for sure, because science doesn't know for sure on this issue either.
I was taught that humans were created by God and that we weren't ever monkeys, but it doesn't damage my faith to think that our species could have evolved into what God wanted us to be. I've heard dozens of ways that religion and science could work out in this instance, but I'm OK with saying I don't know for sure, because science doesn't know for sure on this issue either.
Just to be clear, I don't believe that evolution teaches that humans were once monkeys. I think a lot of creationists assume that's what it means, though, and reject it without really understanding it. It's unfortunate when anyone sees science as "the enemy." I'm like you in that my faith isn't damaged by unanswered questions. I believe there's a God and that He's in charge, but I certainly don't lie awake at night trying to reconcile issues that can't be reconciled until all of the facts are known.
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on his face more than once when I told him some of the things I'd been told. Then he'd shake his head and say (like a little Jewish woman), "Oy oy oy!" 
