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I don't know how many of you remember the 1960's television show the Odd Couple but it comes to mind in an issue that keeps cropping up in my marriage. The issues is, my husband would like life neat and orderly and I really don't care if a cup is left on the counter instead of put in the dishwasher. When I visit his mother, she drives me nuts. She's, CONSTANTLY, picking up some piece of fuzz or using a nasty dishrag that hangs wet, growing germs, and ready to wipe down anything that doesn't look just so so. I figure if there are more important things in life than whether or not there are dust bunnies under the couch (According to Shrodinger's theory, they don't exist anyway until you look )
Now, my husband doesn't want to actually do the work to make life orderly. He wants me to do it. I have no freaking idea how to make myself care that things are out of place. I just don't. I have bigger things to worry about in life. If the bathroom doesn't get cleaned this weekend, no one will die. If I don't get grades posted, I have students who will remain grounded who will be angry at me and it will have a negative impact on my ability to teach them. Now, my husband isn't about to actually clean the bathroom (we've been married 32 years and I've yet to see him clean the bathroom).
I figure life is way too short to sweat the small stuff and housework falls into my small stuff category. Especially during the school year when I have like 2 hours a week of free time (defined as time I'm not grading papers, planning lessons, shopping for supplies, prepping labs or just turning into a vegetable for an hour or so because I, desperately, need a break. (yes, I consider me maintenance time more important than whether or not dishes landed in the sink instead of the dishwasher. I should probably be shot for that ).
The way I see it, my husband is always saying "My (his) life is not _________ enough." And someone else is supposed to take care of what goes into the blank. The problem is, I don't want to be him. I don't want stupid stuff like whether or not the mail got left on the counter to matter that much. (Besides, every time he files the mail for me, something doesn't get paid because my way of dealing with what's important is to keep it in plain sight until I deal with it. If you put it in the mail bin he has for, me, it'll never be seen again because I, rarely, have the time to go through the entire stack to find what's important. UGH.)
So, what do you do when one person wants things so, so, isn't willing to do the work to make them so, so and harps on the other person, who doesn't care if life is cluttered because she just doesn't see it as important? I don't want to come home and have things that are out of place screaming at me making me miserable as my husband says they do him (Personally, I believe that if we did fix this, it would then be something else someone else controls that is making him miserable).
This all came out of our 14 year old's therapy session last night. Which has me puzzled because she's the worst of the bunch when it comes to leaving things lying around. Apparently, she's given up because I'm too frustrating to live with.
Oh, he also sees everything I or our youngest daughter leaves out of place but just cleans up after our older daughter. If a plate is left in front of a computer, he yells for dd#2, if I tell him it's not hers, it's dd#1's, he'll just put it in the dishwasher. If it is dd#2's he'll make her put it away (which she should, it's hers).
Appaently, the next session is going to be a family session all about making dd#2 and I neater so dh and dd#1 are happy. I don't believe either will happen. Dd#2 and I are too much go with the flow. We take care of the important stuff and don't sweat the small stuff and most stuff is small stuff.
Any advice from people who just don't care if their house looks lived in and feels no compulsion to put everything in it's place who live with someone who want's to come home to a home and garden picture perfect home that he doesn't actually want to work to keep that way? Because I don't care, this stuff just doesn't make my radar. I can walk through a room with 10 things out of place and never notice them. Now there comes a point that my mess radar says clean it up but it's way beyond my husband's setting.
This is one of the areas I side with Dr. Laura on. I heard her talk to a man with the same complaints about his wife, years ago, and she told him "To him who cares goes the effort to fix it" (or something like that). In other words since it bothered him, he should make sure everything found it's place. I would just rather clean up the mess I made making pancakes after I eat mine.
I clean every day. But by 1 pm/3 pm/6 pm it's a mess again.
I try to realize that life is too short to be anal and that the house/apartment whatever will be here long after we are gone.
My husband says 'he sees nothing' and will gladly trip over clothes, leave dishes everywhere and just zone out because he says it is a losing battle (he used to be very tidy).
He makes a lot of the mess and will just leave it for me because I am home 24/7.
Eventually it gets done. But quality time with my family or just chilling out is worth more than perfectly mopped floors and tidy closets.
I hate 'dirty' houses (food, crumbs, pet hair all over) but messy I can live with or I will be cleaning all day and night or picking up after someone.
There comes a time when you need to switch off.
Once in awhile he gets into this cleaning frenzy where he rips apart the kitchen or bathroom and cleans it from top to bottom. Of course I have to hear how messy or dirty it is but I do not have the time to clean every room from top to bottom EVERY day.
It's funny when you do something occasionally how you can do a great job but when it's your daily grind you can't go in depth and scrub every inch of every room all the time.
I don't get to say how much work I have done all day (cleaning) because it annoys him but believe me, when he's cleaned something (during one of his fed up frenzies) I have to hear how he mopped and scrubbed or whatever.
I just want a job and don't want to see the mess like he does!
Well it's nice be the chief and not put in the time, If the blame gets misplaced (kids), it's not about the dirty dishes or what ever the pet peeve of the moment. You already know that Ivory.
I clean every day. But by 1 pm/3 pm/6 pm it's a mess again.
I try to realize that life is too short to be anal and that the house/apartment whatever will be here long after we are gone.
My husband says 'he sees nothing' and will gladly trip over clothes, leave dishes everywhere and just zone out because he says it is a losing battle (he used to be very tidy).
He makes a lot of the mess and will just leave it for me because I am home 24/7.
Eventually it gets done. But quality time with my family or just chilling out is worth more than perfectly mopped floors and tidy closets.
I hate 'dirty' houses (food, crumbs, pet hair all over) but messy I can live with or I will be cleaning all day and night or picking up after someone.
There comes a time when you need to switch off.
Once in awhile he gets into this cleaning frenzy where he rips apart the kitchen or bathroom and cleans it from top to bottom. Of course I have to hear how messy or dirty it is but I do not have the time to clean every room from top to bottom EVERY day.
It's funny when you do something occasionally how you can do a great job but when it's your daily grind you can't go in depth and scrub every inch of every room all the time.
I don't get to say how much work I have done all day (cleaning) because it annoys him but believe me, when he's cleaned something (during one of his fed up frenzies) I have to hear how he mopped and scrubbed or whatever.
I just want a job and don't want to see the mess like he does!
I'm with your husband. I don't see the mess. It, actually, has to get pretty bad before it makes my radar. I just don't have time to worry about it. I used to try but it's a losing battle. I find no satisfaction in cleaning/tidying when it's undone 5 minutes later. I'd rather accept that life is messy and live it.
I'm like you. I don't like dirt. Things like the bathroom and the kitchen floor hit my radar first because they get dirty. Laundry in baskets, a cup on the sink, mail left on the counter because I need to deal with it and even dust bunnies under the couch (honestly, what do they hurt?) just don't hit my radar. Now if it gets messy enough, it will but that's WAY BEYOND what bugs my husband. He grew up with his mom picking up crumbs in the carpet every time she walked through the room. (No wonder she took up drinking).
IMO, if you want life perfect, you've got a problem. It never will be. The amount of work that would be necessary to keep it perfect would leave me exhausted.
Because you are home all day, I'll recommend a site called flylady.com. It has some great advice for getting things under control but I found it doesn't work well if you have a full time job on top of everything else. I've had to settle for doing the things that make my life easier and letting the rest go until I find that "round tuit" and I find I don't care. Once I accepted that my house will never be a house and garden magazine showplace, I'm happier.
Laundry needs to get done, meals need to be cooked, the dishwasher needs to be run, shopping needs to get done and the bathroom and kitchen need thorough cleanings on a regular basis. The dust bunnies can multiply to their hearts content (amazingly in a house full of people with allergies, none of us are allergic to dust), I don't care if the towels never make it out of the basket (the important part is they are clean) and I don't care if dishes land in the sink instead of the dishwasher (honestly, they have to be rinsed anyway (according to my dh anyway. If I had it my way, they'd go straight into the dishwasher which, usually, works ok but, occaisionally, doesn't)).
I'm beginning to think my husband and I need separate houses. If he thinks dd#1 is such a neat freak, he can live with her. She's as bad as dd#2 and me but dh can't see it. She's his perfect daughter. He just picks up after her so it looks like she's not leaving messes. I point out when she does because he doesn't see them and he tells me that "She's given up" (implying that she won't try anymore because the house is too messy (her room is the WORST mess in the house))
Now, she is like her dad in the sense that she wants someone else to make her life what she wants it to be. He doesn't want to clean but he wants a clean house. She would love a teen vogue picture perfect bedroom but doesn't want to decorate it or clean it. You should see the teen hang out area we made in the basement. I'm surprised we don't have mice (fortunately, one of my cats is an excellent mouser). Yet dh wants to convince me that the reason dd#1 is so unhappy is the house isn't neat enough. Please name a 14 year old who worries about how neat the house is? IMO, she said what her dad wanted to hear in that session. She managed to blame me and not herself for her anger management problem. What really irks me is that I know that if I did put in the rediculous effort to keep this place picture perfect clean, it wouldn't fix the problem. It would just exhaust me and make me very unhappy. It's not a life I want to live.
So what do I do? How do I make myself care about the cup on the counter? The dust bunnies under the couch? How do I turn myself into my MIL? Should I even try? IMO, it's his problem as he's the one who doesn't like it this way. He's not going to put the effort in because, by his own admission, the house doesn't stay clean. Of course it doesn't. We live in it. I feel like telling him to accept reality. Life is messy. I really don't see a solution here besides separate households and then I have a feeling he'll get tired of cleaning his himself. He'll hire a housekeeper. I have to admit life was easier here when we had a housekeeper but one just isn't in the budget now. I don't make half of what I made as an engineer.
Ivory, I know we only hear your side of the story when it comes to your family, but your dh sounds like a real pain in the arse with some of the stuff he pulls on you (and stuff from the past).
Any way, I don't have experience with a partner wanting A. B. or C. but doesn't do anything to manifest those desires let alone holding exectations that I'll do it for him. That's tough.
Well it's nice be the chief and not put in the time, If the blame gets misplaced (kids), it's not about the dirty dishes or what ever the pet peeve of the moment. You already know that Ivory.
I know that but he's convinced otherwise. I can't believe the entire session with dd#1 was about my housekeeping skills. She's out of control, skipping school, angry all the time, unhappy all the time, making suicidal comments and they talked about the house being messy????? Spit polishing this place and spending every second I have keeping it that way will not fix any of what is going on with her.
While I agree we need more of a regimine around here because kids need to know what to expect, we ALL need to pitch in there. (the unhealthy thing here is the kids never know when they will trip my messiness meter and then I start demanding everyone pitch in and clean. IMO, a job chart with everyone having their jobs to do will avoid that and make things more predictable. Of course, I've been shot down on that one becuase it involved dh and dd#1 having jobs they have to do as well.) Everyone needs their jobs and there have to be consequences if they are not done but everything in it's place doesn't fix anything. It's just going to annoy the hell out of dd#2 and I. We are, by nature, not neat freaks. Addmittedly, messier than we should be and that warrants working on but I have no intention of turning into my MIL because 1) I'd be miserable and 2) it wouldn't fix anything. It's not the problem. However, dh and dd#1 think it is, so what do I do besides move out and let them realize on their own that 1) they don't care to put the effort in either and 2) it's really not the problem.
Ivory, I know we only hear your side of the story when it comes to your family, but your dh sounds like a real pain in the arse with some of the stuff he pulls on you (and stuff from the past).
Any way, I don't have experience with a partner wanting A. B. or C. but doesn't do anything to manifest those desires let alone holding exectations that I'll do it for him. That's tough.
I worry about dd#1 because of this. She's like her father here. It's always something someone else needs to do that will make their lives better.
For example, she claims all the kids at school hate her. When you ask her why, it's because they lie about her. Now, if they really are talking about her and she really is having a problem with kids hating her, it's probably something she's doing, IMO. THAT is why I want her in thearpy. I'm shocked they sat and discussed that I don't keep life organized enough for them yesterday.
IMO, this is a mask for the real problems but as long as the mask is there, they will not see the real problem. So, what do I do? I'm, seriously, thinking me moving out with dd#2 is the answer. They will have no choice but to face that she and I are not the ones making them miserable. They are making themselves miserable. However, I wonder what impact me moving out would have on dd#1 (dd#2 will be fine. She rolls with the punches). I suppose then mom moving out would be to blame for her problems.
I'm at an impasse. I will drop from exhaustion if I even try to organize everything and keep it that way. I'll end up screaming at the kids every time they drop a crumb. Life will be 10 times more miserable for all parties involved. I know where this goes. We've been down this path before. I just cannot make myself care about a coffee cup left on a counter all day. It doesn't scream at me or make me miserable. It's just a stupid coffee cup, and yes, it's probably mine.
Well, you could announce that you're going on strike entirely so DH and DD#1 can see exactly what you do and do not do around the house. Once things reach the critical point you can hold a family meeting and assign tasks. After all, what's DH going to do, leave you?
Doesn't fit here. There's no rescuer, unless dd is the victim. Then her dad would be the rescuer but I'm not the prosecuter but I agree that it's a triangular relationship issue. Just not this one.
Honestly, with all I have on my plate, I don't have time to chase after my kids and make them do chores (dh does nothing to enforce that they do them. He just gets mad that I don't make them do them.). Not that I shouldn't make them do them. I do think it's good that kids help out, I just don't have time. Which, IS a HUGE problem but until I can find another job, I just can't fix that. I'm not giving up. I'm, simply, recognizing that I have way too much on my plate to deal with it all and choosing to let the housework go.
What I'd like to do is have a job chart (My SIL does this and I used to think it was silly but not anymore) where each of us has jobs to do and there are consequences if the kids don't do theirs (parents have to set an example so we HAVE to). It wouldn't have to be much. Just a small chore each day (like loading the dishwasher or washing, drying and folding a load of towels) and one big one on the weekend. I was really hoping the counselor would go for that but, apprently, not (I emailed her before dh and dd's session).
I realize the importance of feeling comfortable at home. I just don't get complaining about something you won't put the effort into doing yourself. Yes, I tend to leave things where I dropped them but I just don't care. How do you make yourself care about something someone else cares about? Honestly, I could walk by the same coffee cup on the counter all day long and it would never bother me one iota. Apparently, it eats away at my dh. Which begs the question "What takes more energy, letting it eat away at you or putting it in the dishwasher?".
Honestly, it bugs me when my kids leave dishes around but it's easier to just pick them up myself (ok, shouldn't do that because they're kids and they should be learning to pick up after themselves but I'm not going to get my nose out of joint over a cereal bowl left on the table when I have much more important stuff to deal with.).
As to the suggestion of going on strike, it would take a while for them to notice right now . I just do little things each day because I really have too much on my plate. I just feel that if we ALL did little things each day that there'd be a big improvement. I realize I'm not goind enough, because I'm stuck in a rut, but they're not doing enough either. I'm not sure why this falls on my shoulders. I see the kids as needing to do more but I don't have the time to make them do it. Dh does have time but won't. He'd rather complain that I didn't do it.
To be honest, even if I had the time, I wouldn't want to spend it fretting about how clean the house is. I'd rather go for a bike ride with the kids. I consider that time better spent. Though it would help if I had more time to clean WITH the kids but that won't get fixed until I find a better job.
It's two weeks until Easter break. I'm thinking I'll clean the house top to bottom and challenge THEM to keep it that way. Any bets within three weeks it's back to where it is now? It won't be clean again until summer when I'm home all day and do have the time to clean with the kids and make sure they do their share.
You know, whoever said that teaching was a good job for a mom to have was nuts. This is the worst job for being a parent. There's way too much on your plate during the school year and then you have ALL your free time at once. I'd much rather have year round schools with those days off given as prep days once a week so I could have a normal home life.
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