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RJ--I don't think you're getting it! As a buyer, you are a disinterested third party to the listing contract and therefore not allowed to interfere with the contract between the seller and the listing brokerage.
All the work still needs to get completed. And none of the liability is waived.
Real Estate is negotiable. It may make sense that the seller would take 3% less than full price offer, if the buyer was well qualified and all the other details were favorable.
Please stop suggesting to OP that it is okay to interfere with the listing brokerages contract. I would guess that both the Brokerages attorney and the licensees attorney would go after that person for tortuous interference - and win for attorney's costs, and damages!
It is rather unlikely that a tortuous interference case would every even be an option, primarily because virtually all tortuous interference cases deal with parties that are operating in a licensed realestate capacity...of which an independant unrepresented buyed clearly is not further in order to establish a claim for Tortuous Interference with Contract, six elements must usually be established:
A valid existing contract; ----Questionalble at best----
That defendant had knowledge of;
That defendant intended to induce breach of;
That the contract was in fact breached or performance was rendered more difficult;
Causation; and
Actual damage. -----what are the damages in this scenario????--are parties have agreed-----
Oh boy! RJ . . . have you ever read through a LISTING contract? The seller agrees to not deal directly with any buyer during the listing period. He is also prohibited from cutting a deal after the list period ends, with any buyer who was shown the property during the list period.
A seller has a choice at the outset whether or not to use a realtor to represent him or whether to market his home himself (FSBO). If he decides to use a realtor to represent him, then he agrees to a certain commission that will be paid to the realtor (broker). Whether or not a buyer has representation by another realtor, the listing realtor, or no representation at all, it's immaterial because the full commission is paid to the listing broker (per the listing agreement). It's the broker that then pays an agreed-upon amount to the cooperating realtor's broker. The agreement (as to how much the buyer's agent is to receive) is made outside of the listing contract and has nothing to do with either the seller or the buyer.
Please read through a listing agreement (Exclusive Right-to-Sell) and see for yourself what legal responsbilities and restrictions are involved.
In the deals I did as a licensed agent (ancient history here) in Denver, the issue of commission % came up a few times. We had a standard house fee of 6% for a listing, but it was always "negotiable" when the buyer agent was in house since the broker was highly motivated to have our listings sold in-house. Our com split was better on in-house deals than outside deals.
We had a few deals come through where the incremental difference of everybody giving in a bit ... seller took a lower offer, agents took a lower fee or different split arrangement, and buyer paid just a little bit more than they were originally willing to spend ... made the numbers work for some sales where both the buyer and seller were right on the edge of being able to qualify for their respective purchases. I also saw a couple of deals go through where the buyer's agent "loaned" a modest amount to the buyer so that they had the money to close on a deal (that was kinda' a gray area, wasn't it?).
In any event, an offer made by a buyer with stipulations about the entire deal is just that ... an offer. The seller is under no force to accept that offer if it doesn't meet the listed price and terms, and can certainly counter (if so desired) with an offer that reflects their position and commitment ... or simply walk away from the buyer's offer for any reason at that point. If the seller is obligated under an exclusive right to sell listing contract, then they may have to perform no matter what deal they want to accept, it will depend upon the neotiations between the two parties.
In this era of 5 figure commissions, an agent may have an incentive to have a deal at a lower figure for their seller now than the uncertainty of no deal at the time. And, too, this works both ways .... the buyer's agent may agree to a lower com figure for their services. It's all in the negotiations of the interested parties, and the key word is "negotiations". It's all negotiable; of course, the listing agent may not be negotiable for their com interest in the deal.
All of this thread, IMO, speaks to the issues of the perceived and real values that a pro agent brings to the transaction process. It's why the discount real estate brokerages are making a niche market for themselves today ... sometimes, they're all that a qualified seller and buyer need to get a deal put together. Sometimes ... maybe not.
I would like to chime in here with some firsthand current experience regarding what my buyer agent (who by the way is also a Licensed Associate Broker) has been doing for me for the past eight months of house-hunting. I'm currently in Massachusetts and looking for the right house on Long Island, NY.
* She has set me up to receive emails from the local MLS whenever a listing is either added to or updated in any of the nine communities I am interested in. The notifications are customized to my expressed wants and needs, and the links give me more extensive information than can be found by searching the public MLSLI website.
* She obtains information from the Seller's agent whenever I have detailed questions about the listing before arranging a showing (and I ALWAYS have questions beforehand!) Many of these questions, though, can be answered by my agent because she is familiar with most of the communities and/or neighborhoods I am interested in.
* If I have questions about matters of public record regarding the property, she obtains that information for me.
* She arranges showings of houses that I want to see, which is sometimes tricky because I am not local/on site and can only make the trip to Long Island on certain days.
* She obtains answers from the Seller's agent to all of the questions I always have AFTER the showing.
* She has been able to give me information on potential problems in certain neighborhoods because she KNOWS those areas. These are things that a Seller's agent would not disclose, and would not need to disclose. For instance, that certain roads in certain neighborhoods often flood in anything more than a heavier-than-normal rainfall; and that access roads to certain areas become traffic nightmares at certain times of the year because of tourist traffic/events. Again, these are things that she knows would be a problem for me but that an agent acting on behalf of the Seller would NEVER mention!
* During the last eight months, she must have shown me at least 50 houses (to be honest, I haven't kept accurate count; it may well be more than that!) that I requested to see. After each showing I email her detailed feedback on what I felt were the pros and cons. Never once has she ever given me any sense that she is impatient with the fact that (by my own admission) I must be one of the pickiest buyers on the planet.
And all this has taken place before I have even FOUND a house that I've wanted to make an offer on! New York is a state in which the involvement of attorneys is a given (on both sides) but not until after the offer has been made and an agreed price ultimately reached.
I certainly would never begrudge my Buyer Agent one cent of her commission when she gets it!
Thank you, windflower. Clients like you are the reason realtors decide to stay in the business! It's so nice to hear someone express appreciation for our hard work.
something's wrong with this picture. either you can't make up your mind or your agent doesn't have a clue what it is you're looking for.
to be able to go through that many houses and have documented objections to each and every one .... and this is after picking through all of the listings coming onto the markets ... is unusual. your agent must have a lot of time and overhead to waste in this unproductive fashion.
perhaps you might seek out the services of another agent who is better able to assess your situation and show you the properties, if any, that meet your needs. after seeing that many houses, I'm sure you could readily narrow down your real wants & needs ....
something's wrong with this picture. either you can't make up your mind or your agent doesn't have a clue what it is you're looking for.
to be able to go through that many houses and have documented objections to each and every one .... and this is after picking through all of the listings coming onto the markets ... is unusual. your agent must have a lot of time and overhead to waste in this unproductive fashion.
A few things are in play here, regarding the number of houses seen.
First, the areas I've looked in for the past 3 months or so are not the same as the ones I began in. Long Island is large: almost 120 miles long and up to 20 miles wide. When I first began, late last summer, I was looking only on the "East End" (the North and South forks) because that is where you can get the most house for the money/lower taxes in the kind of neighborhoods I'm looking for. I probably saw about 15 or 20 homes during that initial phase. Then in late fall/early winter the insurance situation on LI changed dramatically, because all the major companies (after a regional conference) decided to change their underwriting guidelines for the area and refuse to write new business within a certain distance of the shores. Because I don't want to get into a situation where I'm paying $6000 or more per year to insure a home that would cost me 1/2 that amount if it weren't within 1 or 2 miles of the water, I decided to abandon the idea of buying on the East End. There were other things about living there that weren't my ideal but I thought I could deal with, but the new insurance situation was the last straw.
Out of the nine communities I'm now looking in, only four were on my "revised" list initially. Since early December I've added some as well as subtracted some, as a result of getting more in-depth on-site looks at the areas during visits.
I freely admit that I am a picky buyer, but I feel it is justified because the house I'm now looking for will be the one I'll spend the rest of my life in. Hopefully that will be at least 40 years! Most of the "unsuitable" houses have been rejected because of the interior layout which there's no way to find out about until one actually walks through it. I have never yet seen a house with a floorplan exactly like what I want to end up with, so it always comes down to a question of "Can I either live with this as it is?" or "Am I willing to do the level of reconstruction that would be necessary to convert it to what I want?" So far, the answers to those questions have been No.
There have been quite a few homes in which, when we walked into the basement, we saw clear evidence of water intrusion. I would never buy a house with that problem. Again, no way to know about this until a showing.
My agent has a very clear idea of what I want, but I would not expect or ask her to pre-screen every house I'm interested in seeing! That would be a fulltime job in itself, especially since the communities I'm interested in are not even adjacent to each other and only one actually encompasses her office's home territory. There is almost 40 miles between the westernmost community on my list and the easternmost, and they are all 'scattered' within the width (north/south) of Long Island also.
Long Island is a unique place (which is why I want to live there!) and the differences between the various areas are quite pronounced. Things like topography, traffic patterns, soil characteristics, type of vegetation and yes, even weather can be quite different.
I'm very happy with the relationship I have with my buyer agent, and have no intention of altering that.
if being a real estate agent was so easyyyy why is there an 84% drop out,,within two years? (of getting initially licensed)
i've dealt with many yahoos,,,that despise brokers,,most being fsbo (owners)about 15 times, approaching a fsbo owner, (because i have a potential buyer),they will be very blunt,,,dont like brokers etc,, even when asked to look around,,,,possibly ,,doing some property disclosures,,,,,very cold,,deceptive, etc,,some even say,,,i'll sell it on my own and leave,,,in all instances (except one) the house didnt sell,,,,and the owner,,,all emotional, and upset,,lowered his cost,,,,so substantial,,"just to sell it" he lost tens of thousands over any commision payment,,
also,,no one,,absolutely no one,,is in a position,,to judge a broker and thier duties (and pay) until theyve walked in a brokers shoes,,,,and until theyve been thru a closing from hell,,where everyone wants to sue everyone,,,
until,,,,when a buyer ,,elects not to do a building inspection (against recommendation of broker) and three months later,,,they call you screaming,,saying the roof leaks,,and they want ME to pay for an 8k new roof,,, or,,,,until,,, buyer elects NOT to do a mold inspection,,,and 5 mnths later kids get severely sick,,,and the new buyer finds out,,thiers mold in the house and one of his children almost died,,,,
i could go on all day,,,,,and give,,,100 examples why a contract fell apart,,because of no professional representation.
if buying and selling a house was so easy, theyd be no brokers anymore,,,.
most travel agent offices (businesses) around here, are closed, because of the internet and book your own vacations,,the naysayers shouted this would also happens with real estate brokers,,,but it hasnt,,
houses are most folks largest asset,,and we are there to guide them,,,in a very serious and legal process.. and to cover them,
also, ive seen many times,,,someone NOT using a buyers broker, will enter into a contract without giving themselves a back-door (contingencies)
and they of course lose thier earnest monies,,,if they back out., or couldnt get the percentage rate they wanted, etc,
i use to throw rocks at brokers also,,when i was young, naive and dumb,,,,
but boy, did i get an education,,went i got licensed.
there are countless hrs a broker spends/works, showing houses ,,,even up to 20,,,and person decides not to buy,,,countless hrs ,,a broker isnt paid for.
But your explanation substantiates my view ... your agent should not be showing you houses with known & obvious structural defects, for example, or unsatisfactory floor plans with construction issues so they can't be modified to your desired layout.
Either you agent is not previewing houses or having an honest and candid pre-tour conversation with the listing agent. What's the point of touring houses that have absolute no-sale defects for your inspection? It takes time, effort, and expense on both your part to tour unsatisfactory houses. They think you're not going to see the problem? or do they think you'll not find out until after a deal is made and you're an angry (and litigious) homeowner (with cause)?
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Most of the "unsuitable" houses have been rejected because of the interior layout which there's no way to find out about until one actually walks through it. I have never yet seen a house with a floorplan exactly like what I want to end up with, so it always comes down to a question of "Can I either live with this as it is?" or "Am I willing to do the level of reconstruction that would be necessary to convert it to what I want?" So far, the answers to those questions have been No. 
