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I lived in Richmond for a few years. IMHO It is more southern than Raleigh. It seemed to me that the old people who were clinging to old southern ideals were much snootier. People here seem more chill.
That is not a scientific sample. I lived there 20 years ago.
I agree 100%. I lived in Richmond before moving to Raleigh. It feels WAY MORE southern in Richmond.
Most people in Northern Virgnia agree that "The South" begins south of NoVA - around Fredericksburg. And with this I agree. Northern Virginia certainly has some flavor of the south as it's in a Southern State, but it "feels" Mid-Atlantic, being part of DC.
As a transplanted Marylander (20 years ago), I always said the South began literally when you crossed over the South River bridge dividing Annapolis from Edgewater.
All good points made...It seems like the Charlotte metro area has maintained a more southern feel throughout growth from what I have been reading here on the forums.How evident do you feel like that is now in almost 2018?
You say that as if "Southern" and "Mid-Atlantic" are the only two possibilities.
I see nothing "Mid-Atlantic" about this area, but it may not seem "Southern" either (Mostly I don't know why this is continually brought up here--it is what it is, no area is exactly like any other area).
Large urban areas in the south, such as Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc, have an "urban Southern" feel which is quite different from "rural Southern" yet not "Mid-Atlantic", either. "Urban Southern" is the best description of the Triangle.
You can get to "real" Southern mighty quick from here--just drive to Johnston county, or Vance county, etc. You cannot get "real Mid-Atlantic" without driving a few hours up 95.
Old thread but this describes the urban south because it is unique which I totally prefer over the larger rat race cities of the mid-atlantic and the northeast. You get most of the amenities without the headache. To me, there isn't a big difference between the rural south and rural America once you get outside of those larger urban cities in the mid-atlantic and northeast....basically a dialect.
I think a lot of people misleadingly equate being "southern" with a slanted negative spin given the historical past. And there's the common belief that urban "mid-atlantic"> urban "south" culturally, I just don't see it. I do notice some people from there carry that superiority tude but I totally ignore it just like when I lived there.
This is an interesting thread - having grown up in the Northeast (just north of Boston), lived in Eastern PA (Allentown) and now Charleston, SC, and spent a lot of time in Eastern VA (Williamsburg), was wondering how Raleigh compares. We have friends constantly trying to talk us into moving there, and although we've like our visits, I know first-hand how different living somewhere is than visiting.
To me the Northeast is "rat race" culture. People rushing about their daily life, often not interacting with other people, and often rude, clerks in stores not making eye contact much less saying Hello. Live to work, vs work to live. Hectic, stressful, harsh winters, but also beautiful, historic, full of culture, and gorgeous Fall and Summer weather. Love going back to visit, but wouldn't want to live there again.
Only my opinion, and a lot clouded by what was going on in my life at the time perhaps, but I didn't like Eastern PA at all. Didn't find the people welcoming or friendly at all. In fact when I was job hunting, I was told natives believed woman shouldn't work, never mind be in management positions. Too far from the ocean and mountains. Didn't get any sense of culture. The slow pace without the hospitality was grating. Summers were hot and humid, snow was rare but disruptive. Hated the red clay - could never get it out of clothes.
Williamsburg, VA to me feels Mid-Atlantic. Warmer weather, friendlier people, but doesn't feel "Southern" at all. Very pretty, lots of wealthy people, some culture going on, and a ton of history. Feel it's know more for it's history than having a lot of culture, though. Not TOO far from DC/NOVA. Pace is comfortably slow - people are still take work seriously, but didn't appear to be the cut-throat work culture of the Northeast. Food seemed "meh". Never made it into Richmond.
Charleston is a whole different ball game. Love some of it, some not so much. It's decidedly Southern, in both the good ways and bad. It's got the great part of Southern down - friendly people, laid-back lifestyle, polite and courteous people (just not on the road), and great southern food. Racism isn't outwardly evident, but there's definitely a very evident "have vs have not" aspect - i.e., tons of million dollar homes, intermingled with literal shacks. Lots of "Good Ole Boy" attitude here still, and the area doesn't feel very progressive (not talking politics). Things here happen VERY slowly, except building, where environmental concerns seem non-existent - fill in the wetlands and build? Sure! Very conservative politically. Hot has H-- in summer (mid-May through at least Sept). But beautiful Fall/Spring/Winter weather - like that there are "seasons" here but no snow or ice. Allergies are brutal. The architecture is decidedly Southern and one of my favorite things.
Everyone here is into religion - it's a part of life and brought up frequently (Have a Blessed Day, etc.) but not shoved in your face. There are a lot of things to do here, certainly more than Allentown, PA but I don't know if I'd call the area "cultural" (not in the sense of Boston), although there is a new performance center downtown and the Gullah culture and Spoleto Festival, etc. And of course downtown is beautiful and historic, yet not "pristine". The outlying areas, unfortunately for the most part are just massive sprawl. Other than the palm trees, it doesn't feel "Southern".
The work culture here is very different than "up North". People here don't seem driven, and there are not a lot of big industry or corporations. It's a lot of lifestyle businesses, people working from home, lawyers, etc. There's a bit of the "party town" vibe here - people who never grew up acting like college kids. Although there are several colleges, it doesn't have that "college town vibe".
Not having spent much time in Raleigh, wondering how it fits in with the above. Someone described it as "Urban Southern". That brings to mind Austin, TX or Nashville, TN. Does it have that vibe? Hip and trendy, but slow-paced and hospitable? Or is it more generic? Does it have personality?
Nothing in the Triangle that we've seen so far (Cary, Apex, Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Hillsboro) seemed southern to me. Maybe it's that the landscape reminds me more of New England (especially Chapel Hill and Hillsborough), than say Charleston. It doesn't seem as slow-paced or laid back as Charleston, but the people we've met have seemed very nice. My first experience in NC was in RDU, trying to lug my suitcase onto the escalator, and someone (a NC native), jumped in and carried it for me. That would NEVER happen in Boston. They'd climb right over you or swear at you for holding things up.
What is the "pace" of Raleigh/The Triangle? From the traffic we've experienced in some areas and posts I read about the schools, it seems a little hectic, a little of the rat race/competitive culture. Is it? Is it a "keeping up with the Jones's" type of place, or is it a kick-back place where people work hard but also take time to enjoy life, and where hospitality and courtesy is a priority? If you're not into hiking, lake activities or college sports, is there enough to do - concerts, small music venues (pubs/coffee houses), museums, festivals, art galleries, antique shops, boutique-type shops, good restaurants?
Is there a "have/have not" aspect to the Triangle where poverty is very evident - talking Chapel Hill, Hillsborough, Wake Forest, Raleigh, etc., not the more outlying areas. (I was surprised at the poverty % of Chapel Hill on some site I saw)? Is racism an issue, or do people integrate well?
Have never been to Charlotte or Atlanta other than the airport, so don't know what those cities are like in comparison.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by macalan
Only my opinion, and a lot clouded by what was going on in my life at the time perhaps, but I didn't like Eastern PA at all. Didn't find the people welcoming or friendly at all. In fact when I was job hunting, I was told natives believed woman shouldn't work, never mind be in management positions. Too far from the ocean and mountains. Didn't get any sense of culture. The slow pace without the hospitality was grating. Summers were hot and humid, snow was rare but disruptive. Hated the red clay - could never get it out of clothes.
Not having spent much time in Raleigh, wondering how it fits in with the above. Someone described it as "Urban Southern". That brings to mind Austin, TX or Nashville, TN. Does it have that vibe? Hip and trendy, but slow-paced and hospitable? Or is it more generic? Does it have personality?
Nothing in the Triangle that we've seen so far (Cary, Apex, Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Hillsboro) seemed southern to me. Maybe it's that the landscape reminds me more of New England (especially Chapel Hill and Hillsborough), than say Charleston. It doesn't seem as slow-paced or laid back as Charleston, but the people we've met have seemed very nice. My first experience in NC was in RDU, trying to lug my suitcase onto the escalator, and someone (a NC native), jumped in and carried it for me. That would NEVER happen in Boston. They'd climb right over you or swear at you for holding things up.
What is the "pace" of Raleigh/The Triangle? From the traffic we've experienced in some areas and posts I read about the schools, it seems a little hectic, a little of the rat race/competitive culture. Is it? Is it a "keeping up with the Jones's" type of place, or is it a kick-back place where people work hard but also take time to enjoy life, and where hospitality and courtesy is a priority? If you're not into hiking, lake activities or college sports, is there enough to do - concerts, small music venues (pubs/coffee houses), museums, festivals, art galleries, antique shops, boutique-type shops, good restaurants?
Is there a "have/have not" aspect to the Triangle where poverty is very evident - talking Chapel Hill, Hillsborough, Wake Forest, Raleigh, etc., not the more outlying areas. (I was surprised at the poverty % of Chapel Hill on some site I saw)? Is racism an issue, or do people integrate well?
Have never been to Charlotte or Atlanta other than the airport, so don't know what those cities are like in comparison.
If you found Allentown, PA to be too far from the ocean and the mountains, then you will find Raleigh/Durham to be at least as far. From Allentown, you can get to parts of the Jersey Shore in less than 2 hours and to the Poconos in about an hour. From Raleigh/Durham, it's about 2 hours from the beach and 3 hours to the mountains. There is also a lot more red clay here in the soil. Having said that, Raleigh is a bigger city with more to do, I think, than Allentown. I'm also guessing that it's less traditional and has a greater mix of people from other places. Allentown, I suspect is more conservative and filled with mostly locals.
I don't think there is as much of a vibe in Raleigh as in Nashville or in Austin, which have unique personalities. Raleigh is more generic and sterile. Durham has a grittier feel and perhaps more of a personality, but it is much smaller overall. As a small town, Hillsborough has a unique and somewhat Southern/colonial vibe. Chapel Hill, of course, has a college-town feel.
You will find the more "southern feeling" parts of the Triangle to be the outer parts and perhaps the poorer areas. The rest of the area is more Anywhere, USA feeling with lots of suburbs, strip malls, and big box stores. Coming from Boston, I don't think you'll think this area is fast-paced, but is probably moreso than Charleston. There are lots of small concert type venues and restaurants. I think the number of museums here leave a lot to be desired. There are a few good ones, but after going to them a couple of times, I don't feel the need to go back. I do come from Phila. and DC, though, which are among the top cities in the country for museums, so everyone has a different perspective on this. There is not as much to do here as in a big city like Boston, but most people think there are adequate amenities. Although, you usually have to drive to them and are much more they spread out among the three main corners of the Triangle. They are not as concentrated as in a big city like DC, NY, Philly, Boston, etc. And of course there is little public transportation, so driving is a way of life here.
Chapel Hill very much has a have/have not vibe. I think it is because the liberal nature of the town has made it a priority to include people of all socioeconomic statuses in its limits. My kids' schools in CH/Carrboro all have about a 20-25% free/reduced lunch rate. Is it better overall that kids mix in or is it better where people live among those who are more similar to them socioeconomically? Honestly, I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both. There is definitely some friction at the middle school and high school level with some wealthy/often white groups and poor/often black groups. My kids have been chided for living in a "snobby" neighborhood. And there has to be some feelings of envy/jealousy to those who travel the world, live in large homes, etc. Of course, these "entitled" kids also see that the whole world does not live like them, and most kids I meet here are very aware of those less fortunate and help raise money for a variety of causes. Much of that might be the result of being a product of their parents' liberal political persuasion, too.
I don't think the rest of the Triangle has as much of a dichotomy of rich/poor, but I'll let others who live there address that.
Hope that helps give you some additional perspective.
All good points made...It seems like the Charlotte metro area has maintained a more southern feel throughout growth from what I have been reading here on the forums.How evident do you feel like that is now in almost 2018?
Are you asking about Charlotte? This is the Raleigh/Durham Board...
Just because Raleigh has lots of transplants doenst mean its mid atlantic... all it takes is a trip up 95 to know that. Raleigh is southern, urban southern to be specific... just like Atlanta... Durham is southern, black southern, kind of like some of those towns in Louisiana and North eastern nc that are preodminantly black. Chapel Hill is southern also... no where in NC is not southern. Some places may feel more generic because of transplants but there is still southern identity engrained in the area...
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