Need help understanding Portland Public School districts and school choice (IB, immersion, etc) (house, neighborhood)

[Nell Plotts]

My nephew marred a Mexican primary school teacher last year. Her teaching credentials aren't transferable so she is working as a teaching assistant in a PPS Spanish immersion program in SE Portland. She is also tutoring my grandson in Spanish a couple days a week. She is fantastic! Her principal wants her to apply to a Master's Degree program at PSU. I would not hesitate to enroll my child in that program.

[oldtintype]

Originally Posted by AndyAMG

If your kids aren't a minority or poor good luck getting them into anything special. At J.J. Astor we were flat out told that my wife should teach them Spanish and that kids with less opportunities should be get to go to TAG or immersion programs before "privileged" children. In Milwaukie we got none of that attitude, my son was easily accepted into CAFE. My daughters are able to do a bilingual after school program at El Puente but can not do the immersion, because they are too old. .

It's lottery based. As in they draw numbers so that isn't true.

Lottery logic is that some aspects are slightly weighted heavier than other aspects depending on the school, but they don't "choose" poor kids over non poor kids when they draw names.

[khyron]

I sincerely appreciate all the feedback everyone, it's wonderfully useful and explained far better than on any PPS web pages. The PPS site pretty much presumes you're in the "I already know how everything works, just help me find a form or a date or a minor detail about what I already know" category. It's like asking someone about basic high level computer programming and having them throw you a twenty pound textbook on assembler and scoff "good luck." *sigh*

You folks on the other hand are amazing. Please, nobody who's critical of PPS feel any need to hold back with constructive criticism. If you're worried about someone else getting all reactionary, just message me directly. Your advice will be appreciated and you certainly won't offend me. I was born in NYC, generally all that offends me are quiet docile people who refuse to speak their opinions and never question anything.

I really appreciate how candid and helpful everyone is being, this information helps me a lot as we start to figure all this stuff out. I'm glad I'm looking into it now, four years before kindergarten! I can't imagine moving here with grown kids and trying to dive in. That seems like it would be a nightmare, especially coming from another place where none of this stuff even exists.

[oldtintype]

Four years from now things will be drastically different. A big push towards decreasing inequity is in the works with changes to the transfer process, redrawing boundaries, etc. A lot of changes will be occurring over the next few years so I wouldn't get too stuck on how things are now as they will be different four years from now.

And lastly, please be one of those parents who understands that high test scores doesn't mean the school is necessarily better than a school with mixed test scores or a Title 1 designation. Most of the schools with high test scores have high powered parents who have their kids enrolled in everything known to man and flock to the same schools which end up with huge class sizes because everyone wants their child in the highest performing school. Meanwhile many of the Title 1 schools have a more diverse population racially and economically but have SMALLER class sizes and lots of extra programming. True example--35 kids in a 3rd grade class at Alameda vs. 20 kids in a 3rd grade class at Grout, which is a fantastic school but has lower test scores.

Parental involvement and reading to your child is their best chance at success. Most kids will do well in any school as long as their parents are involved.

I pulled my child out of a high performing school with 35 kids and put him into a lower performing school that had 21 kids in the class and we're so much happier. Visit schools and don't just go by test scores--the social emotional piece is so much more important, particularly in elementary school.

And don't rule out neighborhoods with schools that are supposedly "bad." NE and North Portland have tons of schools that always get a bad rap. Remember that the ratings and test scores you see are always a few years old and that parental involvement in the NE and N schools have increased dramatically and some really wonderful stuff is happening in many of the schools people always label "bad." Data won't reflect any of the great stuff happening for several years. Visit and see for yourself before you rule out neighborhoods or schools based on old data.

And for all the PPS haters....it's almost like a knee jerk reaction--PPS=bad. My experiences says otherwise.

[oldtintype]

Also, since you're a new parent...realize that all your plans may go out the window. Until you know how your child learns and develops you won't know what is the best fit. I was absolutely sure what school would be like for my oldest child--immersion program, great grades, etc. and instead I have a kid with a lot of learning disabilities (normal IQ but school is stressful for him) and what I thought would be best for him was the worst. What is working best for him is nothing like what I thought originally (i.e. Title One school vs. high test score school). So don't get stuck on an idea until you know your child's personality and what kind of environment would be best. Kids need to feel safe and confident and a high powered school can steam roll less confident kids. Just a FYI. Social emotional is heavily tied to academic performance.

[AndyAMG]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

It's lottery based. As in they draw numbers so that isn't true.

Lottery logic is that some aspects are slightly weighted heavier than other aspects depending on the school, but they don't "choose" poor kids over non poor kids when they draw names.

Right, exactly, the lottery is biased towards poor children and minorities. I'm fine with that, everyone deserves a good education as long as the student and parents put effort into it. I just think PPS should be up front with people about the biases. I think people should know they have a less than 1 in 3 shot of getting into PPS special programs. If they are middle class and white they have even less of a chance. Like I said that's okay, what is isn't, is stinging parents along and making think they have a good shot at it, when they never really did.

Here is some recent data for you to mull over O.P.

Scoop on Schools - Lottery Basics

Global Strategies: Portland Public Schools immersion lottery data for 2013-14

[oldtintype]

No it isn't, it's weighted towards bringing the free and reduced lunch value to the average for the district at the school you're applying to. It depends on the school you apply to whether being poor or wealthy helps you. And it's weighted slightly. I guess you're making the assumption that only wealthy schools get applicants, but they don't--poor schools get applicants too, especially for immersion and if you are wealthy and apply for a school that has a higher than average free and reduced lunch statistic you have a BETTER chance of getting in than a low income family as an example.

Most poor people don't even apply to the lottery because you have to provide your own transportation and many single parent or low income families work schedules that don't allow them to fit the extra time in, don't have cars, cant afford the extra gas, etc. Look at the data sometime of the transfer applicants.

The average lottery participant is a middle class family who has a stay at home parent and can drive all over town each day. The lottery system actually perpetuates inequity which is why policies will be changing. Eventually it will only be for things like immersion programs or special focus programs that are part of the lottery and everyone else just needs to invest in their neighborhood schools.

Have you looked at the space availability this year? There are hardly ANY transfer spots these days for anyone, particularly immersion. Emphasis is actually put on neighborhood kids getting into the programs now.

[AndyAMG]

No, I fixed the problem and moved out of PPS. I'll stay out of this since PPS system antics are not my concern any longer.

[khyron]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

...please be one of those parents who understands that high test scores doesn't mean the school is necessarily better than a school with mixed test scores or a Title 1 designation. Most of the schools with high test scores have high powered parents who have their kids enrolled in everything known to man and flock to the same schools which end up with huge class sizes because everyone wants their child in the highest performing school...

I am definitely one of "those," as my mother and sister and several of my friends are K-12 educators and administrators around the country. I've seen too much of what goes on behind public education metrics to put much stock in them at all. I definitely don't "shop" for schools based on some silly numbers, least of all silly numbers in BS magazines like US News (which is also so laughably off base on higher ed that I can't believe anyone even reads that stuff).

I was purely interested in how certain PPS schools do, and more may in the future, offer both (a shot at) immersion experiences and IB availability. I've not lived anywhere in the country where that was even a possibility before. So the novelty alone merited doing some research. Finding out more about how it works though, I'm inclined to worry more about the latter than the former.

Originally Posted by oldtintype

...Parental involvement and reading to your child is their best chance at success. Most kids will do well in any school as long as their parents are involved.

Well said, and we certainly do that! Mostly what I'm interested in is whatever schools our little ones end up in, that there be a good variety of different kinds of classes for them to choose from when they reach an age where that sort of flexibility becomes valuable (was middle school back in my day, don't know how that works nowadays yet). I'm more concerned with opportunities than with magical numbers/stats, if that makes any sense.

[oldtintype]

Great! Most people come on here and ask what the "best" schools are and they usually gauge that by test scores