Moved from PDX to Houston Several Years Back...My thoughts... (Portland: sales, apartments)

[PDXNative2Houston]

I've been lurking and reading these forums for a while now, especially since moving to Houston (Sugar Land) from Portland several years back. I grew up and went to University in Portland. Obviously Portland still feels like "home", and I'd love for it to be, but the city and surrounding areas have lost any semblance of being a place to reasonably grow and prosper...where as growing up it was a place where you could do just that.

A few thoughts for anyone thinking of moving to PDX as well as some thoughts on a polar-opposite city being Houston....

(1) Oregon was once a very libertarian type place. Business was good, and open minds were common. The influx of people from California (sons and daughters of the Hippy movement) changed things drastically. Business is terrible, and despite a lot of Portlanders self-proclaiming that they have an open mind and are live and let live, that only pertains to being open minded to those left of center.

(2) While Houston has it's drawbacks for being very open to large corporations...Portland would do well to realize that big business helps small business. If larger corporations move in, there needs to be smaller business to support such large corps. The career opportunity situation in PDX is just awful as a result of the anti-big business stance the city has taken.

(3) State income taxes entirely make you un-competitive, and only hurt the employees working and living in Oregon. If I'm Mr. Business Owner, am I going to take a take home pay-cut when you raise my taxes? Absolutely not in most cases...I'll instead cut my employees benefits.

(4) The urban growth boundary and incredibly strict zoning laws are just insane. At 27 years old I can afford a 3000 sq ft house, built in 2000 with a pool on a quarter acre of land in Sugar Land for about $175k. In Portland that may get me a very average townhouse, even in the outskirts of town. All of my friends that are still back there are struggling to get out of 2 bedroom apartments and don't see buying a home as a reality before their 40, if at all.

(5) The drug problem in the homeless community is rampant. While Houston has it's share of homeless, I've noticed that they are generally sane and speak like normal human beings. In Portland I rarely encountered a homeless person who was coherent or could act in a rational manner. Something needs to be done about that.

(6) The city is striving to force everyone on to public transit. I don't think there's been any sort major effort to expand the highway system since the 80's. While public transit options are good, does PDX really want to be a New York? There's plenty of space to grow normal commuter transit systems.

With all that said, I'm hoping the place turns the page a bit to get back to some normalcy in the area. Maybe there have been some steps taken that way since I left in 2010, but from what I've read it's simply not the place to be for any young people that want an up and coming career and to live the stereotypical "American Dream".

[mc0624]

Thank you for that insight. Our family of 4 is "considering" a move up to Portland or Vancouver from the Northern California area. The reasons we want out of CA.....1) the government folks are INSANE and have no clue (heck we are building a "I've lost count on how much-billion dollar bullet train to nowhere), 2) CA is making it more and more difficult for small businesses to succeed (both hubby and I have small businesses) and 3) everything seems cheaper once you are out of CA. It just seems like we might have more of an opportunity to get further ahead financially if we were out of CA.

We are very much unsure at this point and I've been scouring these forums to get a feel for what people think and are experiencing. We are heading up for a few days at the end of the month to check things out. There are pros & cons to every place....we know that.....we are just tired of CA (minus the landscape of course).

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by mc0624

Thank you for that insight. Our family of 4 is "considering" a move up to Portland or Vancouver from the Northern California area. The reasons we want out of CA.....1) the government folks are INSANE and have no clue (heck we are building a "I've lost count on how much-billion dollar bullet train to nowhere), 2) CA is making it more and more difficult for small businesses to succeed (both hubby and I have small businesses) and 3) everything seems cheaper once you are out of CA. It just seems like we might have more of an opportunity to get further ahead financially if we were out of CA.

We are very much unsure at this point and I've been scouring these forums to get a feel for what people think and are experiencing. We are heading up for a few days at the end of the month to check things out. There are pros & cons to every place....we know that.....we are just tired of CA (minus the landscape of course).

No problem. For what you have quoted, I certainly wouldn't consider Portland the place where you'd reach your goals. The best family neighborhoods in Portland lye in the suburbs of Lake Oswego, Tigard (Bull Mountain), Beaverton (especially around Murray Hill), and the West Hills of Portland. Take a look at the housing prices in those places and you'll see that for anything reasonable for a family of 4, that you're looking at close to California prices for those.

As well, career opportunities are very-very dry. The area has a lot of the same problems you had noted about CA and shot themselves in the foot by driving out the timber industry and being aggressive with large corps who had once called Oregon home (mostly high-tech, and manufacturing). You'd be much better suited in Austin if you want a Portland type feel, but want to get ahead financially. If you want pure money, Houston is a good fit. I went from a base salary of 55k/year in 2010 to well in to the 6 figures here in Houston.

[Minervah]

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion and on I agree with some of yours and disagree on others but I am not going to get into it either way for one simple reason. Why are you posting them in the first place unless you plan to move back here?

You lived here before. Big whoop. I used to live in Chicago. I don't go back to their forum telling them what their city is like today just by reading what I see on CD or any other website.

I just don't get why some people think they are authorities on how or why other cities operate they way they do from hundreds of miles away. Move back here and observe firsthand. Then we'll talk.

[sezzam]

Originally Posted by mc0624

...We are very much unsure at this point and I've been scouring these forums to get a feel for what people think and are experiencing. We are heading up for a few days at the end of the month to check things out. There are pros & cons to every place....we know that.....we are just tired of CA (minus the landscape of course).

I assume you are aware Oregon has one of the highest rates of individual income tax in the nation. So your net income can be quite low if your small business is a proprietorship/partnership/LLC. Even corporations pay a rather high income tax. Of course, you don't pay sales tax, but most businesses don't mind sales tax, because they can factor that into the cost of their goods.

A bit north, the state of Washington, is an alternative to consider. They have no individual income tax and businesses pay a gross receipts tax (I believe). WA does charge sales tax.

One possibility is to live and run business just north of Portland in the Vancouver/Washougal area. You can driver over to Oregon at least for your large personal shopping. FYI, there is a Costco warehouse pretty close to the border near the Portland airport.

Just something to think about.

[sorupaa]

at least he's not telling us we need a subway lol

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by Minervah

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion and on I agree with some of yours and disagree on others but I am not going to get into it either way for one simple reason. Why are you posting them in the first place unless you plan to move back here?

You lived here before. Big whoop. I used to live in Chicago. I don't go back to their forum telling them what their city is like today just by reading what I see on CD or any other website.

I just don't get why some people think they are authorities on how or why other cities operate they way they do from hundreds of miles away. Move back here and observe firsthand. Then we'll talk.

I would move back in a heartbeat if some of the things I had mentioned would change. Reading these forums, there's quite a few people who seem to want a compare/contrast perspective, so I offered mine and my experience.

FYI- I wouldn't just say "I lived there". I was born, raised and lived there for the first 26 years of my life and left in 2010...not exactly a large time gap for things to change much. As well, I've kept up visiting the parts of my family still there since 2010.

I hope that gives you some perspective.

[skiffrace]

A few thoughts and comments

At 27 years old I can afford a 3000 sq ft house, built in 2000 with a pool on a quarter acre of land in Sugar Land for about $175k. In Portland that may get me a very average townhouse, even in the outskirts of town. All of my friends that are still back there are struggling to get out of 2 bedroom apartments and don't see buying a home as a reality before their 40, if at all.

Correct. Texas is very large and very flat, few zoning regulations = cheap housing.

The city is striving to force everyone on to public transit. I don't think there's been any sort major effort to expand the highway system since the 80's. While public transit options are good, does PDX really want to be a New York? There's plenty of space to grow normal commuter transit systems.

Not really. The major metro areas have complicated, hilly topography, there are few places to build new freeways. Also, building freeways is very expensive, and OR is in the perpetual state of budget crisis.

Despite a lot of Portlanders self-proclaiming that they have an open mind and are live and let live, that only pertains to being open minded to those left of center.

You are probably right in this matter.

Oregon was once a very libertarian type place. Business was good, and open minds were common. The influx of people from California (sons and daughters of the Hippy movement) changed things drastically. Business is terrible

How do you know all this since you are only 27? In fact, the only business in the old days was timber + some agriculture. Then Intel arrived, Oregon turned into high-tech hub, and everything changed. Business is good now, as long as you have an up-to-date, marketable skill.


Last, but not least.
Yes, you can buy a bigger house for less money in Houston, a city where "air smells like cancer".
There is little point of leaving your air-conditioned house or car, either. The heat and humidity will suffocate you, and there is nowhere to go - apocalyptic Texan hellscape for hundreds of miles in any direction. For entertainment, you watch industrial plants explode. Plants that were build few hundred yards away from schools and retirement centers - remember: Texas does not burden the businesses with nuisance like zoning and safety regulation.
People who come to live in Pacific NW are willing to forgo McMansions in exchange for 300-foot tall trees, blue lakes, fresh air and snow-capped mountains.

[Jumauslo]

It seems like there should be a middle ground. I see Lancaster Dr here in Salem and I think capitalism run amuck. I'll pay a little more for houses to avoid sights like that everywhere.

You seem to be describing two extremes of which I would pick Oregon's.

[Discovery1]

People who come to live in Pacific NW are willing to forgo McMansions in exchange for 300-foot tall trees, blue lakes, fresh air and snow-capped mountains.


Give me a break.