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Old 04-24-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 780,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Oh, well then - lets ignore her.

Sharia may not be the 'law' in places like Iraq or Egypt but it certainly is followed, isn't it? Or at least the parts the subjegate women.
After all, women are murdered for 'dishonoring' their families, women are forced into marriages (including sex) when they are still children to settle their fathers debts, women may get a divorce but will have no rights to the children afterwards, womens husbands have a right to beat them.
honour killings are not islamic but traditional, even people who follow other religions in 3rd world countries have honour killings. As for the marriages, poverty drives these people to marry their daughters to old men which is totally unacceptable, but these things are also commited by Jews and Christians who live in 3rd world countries. If a family have enough money to support itself then it will be almost unthinkable to marry their daughters to old men.
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:04 PM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,692,793 times
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Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
honour killings are not islamic but traditional, even people who follow other religions in 3rd world countries have honour killings. As for the marriages, poverty drives these people to marry their daughters to old men which is totally unacceptable, but these things are also commited by Jews and Christians who live in 3rd world countries. If a family have enough money to support itself then it will be almost unthinkable to marry their daughters to old men.
Poverty certainly explains a bit -- and you are right, muslims are not alone in being guilty of these abuses. The problem for me comes when Islamic scholars/imams/clerics use the Koran as justification for things like honor killings, early marriages, domestic abuse and the like. It is wrong on the level of human rights. I am also not saying that all muslims do these things or condone these things. I have always maintained that the moderate majority need to diminish the radical minority. It seems to me that they are either too scared to or perhaps agree with the radicals to one extent or another.

And really.....I had no idea that Saudia Arabia was considered a third world country
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:12 PM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,692,793 times
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Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
All good points. The issue I have with people such as Wafa Sultan is they demonize all of Islam. I think western feminists are greatly influenced by people and positions such as these. Is it wrong to support feminists who are proud of their Muslim faith, and are trying to educate and organize within the structure of their religion? I think they deserve our support. Is that seen as being somehow complicit in the subjugation of women in Islam? Probably, who knows.

I think that moderate muslim women are the only hope for women who are currently being abused by fundementalist islam. And when I say 'fundementalist Islam' I don't mean women who prefer to veil themselves and observe rules of modesty. I mean women who are being forced into marriages, women who are not allowed to walk the street without a man or be educated. There are real abuses going on and I don't think that as women we should ignore them or gloss over them. Though I will say that as Western women are role is very limited -- as it should be. The voice and momentum for change within fundementalist and radical Islam should come from Muslim women themselves.


I was a member of an online weightloss group that had many, many sub genres. One of them was for Muslim women. I admit I lurked out of sheer curiosity. One woman related a story of a man who was criticizing her husband for allowing her to go to school to become a doctor. Her husband responded 'well, if good muslim women don't become drs just who will your wife and daughters go see if they become ill?'....it made the first man think. This is the kind of thing that must happen (and does happen) to change the direction of Islam.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Unknown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Poverty certainly explains a bit -- and you are right, muslims are not alone in being guilty of these abuses. The problem for me comes when Islamic scholars/imams/clerics use the Koran as justification for things like honor killings, early marriages, domestic abuse and the like. It is wrong on the level of human rights. I am also not saying that all muslims do these things or condone these things. I have always maintained that the moderate majority need to diminish the radical minority. It seems to me that they are either too scared to or perhaps agree with the radicals to one extent or another.
The problem with Rural and illiterate religious leaders is they're illiterate about the religion itself, they only know the basic and mix traditions with religion, but they're mostly misinformed about the religion itself.

Quote:
And really.....I had no idea that Saudia Arabia was considered a third world country
It is a third world country but its developing fast.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:03 AM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,692,793 times
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Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
The problem with Rural and illiterate religious leaders is they're illiterate about the religion itself, they only know the basic and mix traditions with religion, but they're mostly misinformed about the religion itself.


It is a third world country but its developing fast.

How can Saudia Arabia be a third world country? It has so much incredible wealth? I'm not being pissy - I'm geniunely confused about that.

As for the illiterate religious leaders ---- well, thats not always the case. I just read in the paper that a leading Imam in Yemin is protesting the end of child brides. He is cited as being a major religious advisor to Osama bin Ladin. It's not only the illiterate and backwards that continue barbaric practices. But like I said - I think that the answer lies with muslims who have embraced the modern age.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 780,434 times
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Originally Posted by camping! View Post
How can Saudia Arabia be a third world country? It has so much incredible wealth? I'm not being pissy - I'm geniunely confused about that.
Economically its a 1st world country, but when it comes to freedom then its a 3rd world country.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,158 posts, read 29,456,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
How can Saudia Arabia be a third world country? It has so much incredible wealth? I'm not being pissy - I'm geniunely confused about that.

As for the illiterate religious leaders ---- well, thats not always the case. I just read in the paper that a leading Imam in Yemin is protesting the end of child brides. He is cited as being a major religious advisor to Osama bin Ladin. It's not only the illiterate and backwards that continue barbaric practices. But like I said - I think that the answer lies with muslims who have embraced the modern age.
simple oil
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