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They are their own country and can do as they please, it seems to be an internal matter for the french,
This mentality amazes me. You think that a country's government can do as it pleases regardless of its citizens? You must support Ahmedinejad, Kim Jong Il, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude
A potential terrorist is not going to have a change of heat because of this dress code restriction - he/she can easily get hold of the garb of a catholic priest/nun and still pack a punch.
Agreed. Furthermore, a ban on aspects of their culture would likely increase terrorist motivations.
Full body veils and burqas are a terrific way to conceal bombs and carry out terrorist attacks. I'm glad the French government is fighting back against this corroding "religion" (which is more like a violent cult).
A potential terrorist is not going to have a change of heart because of this dress code restriction - he/she can easily get hold of the garb of a catholic priest/nun and still pack a punch.
Issues like driver's license etc aside, I think people should be free to wear what they think their culture or religion calls for. I know, for example in muslim countries, women are not allowed to wear shorts etc - but that is their problem. The west should be better than that.
You can find this funny, but when the Arabic and African governments start enforcing their laws on westerners there, then you would know how it feels.
thats all right.......I can do without going to the middle east or north Africa ever again. Let you in on a little secret.....those governments ALREADY enforce their laws....thats what sovereign countries do.
Personally I think that any aliens coming into this country ought to be stripped and searched.....complete with internal verification and full body photographs, prints, and dna. Anyone who wants to avoid such things should be required to have a thorough background check run by the US Government and be certified and provided with an electronic id that contains prints, dna data, and security levels.
(wow - I got quoted in post 32 before I posted in #33 !!) Logicisyourfriend is a mind reader Software bug for admin?
Wanted to add - sikhs are allowd to wear their turbans in almost every country I know. How is that different? Would France be ok banning the little jewish hat too?
Most women prefer to wear it, i know and im not making this up, because i have seen this with my own eyes, so im not going to be lying to you, maybe in some cases but the vast majority of them prefer to wear it anyways.
First of all, I do not believe that you know what "the vast majority" of women prefer. Nor, to the best of my knowledge, have you spoken to the Muslim women that I went to university with that hated wearing the veil but had no choice.
That reality aside, immigrants should adapt to the country they have chosen to live in. They should not expect their generous host country to adapt to them and their beliefs. And if France says "no wearing of the veil" and they don't like it, then they can move to a country where the veil reigns.
This makes as much sense as the police going into the homes of domestic abusers and telling the woman that she can no longer wear silk nighties since some men force women to wear such things. Between being beaten, forced to cook and clean, the verbal, physical and sexual abuse, I’m sure that woman will be happy she no longer needs to wear that silk nighty. Even if she actually enjoyed the feel of silk she will be happier. And hey if we have to fine or arrest HER in order to make her life better then remember it’s for her own good.
The reality is any women wearing a veil is far enough into the religion that the government FORCING HER to remove the veil will have no substantial effect. For her to be free and liberated SHE must be allowed to make a choice. All the woman will see is that her husband has been replaced by the state and she is STILL not free to make her own decision. Worse still those who are oppressed but wanted to wear the veil either for comfort, privacy, or religious reasons will see how the government hates her religion and why she should not trust them.
SECURITY:
Right! Because after packing 50 pounds of C4 onto her student book bag, and wrapping 40 pounds of Detcord around her torso the extra 2 ounce of TNT the woman can super glue to her face and hide under her veil will make her so much deadlier.
The reality is that France has enough security holes that barring the hijab is like trying to stop burglars by putting a $1000 alarm system on the bathroom fan vent when all the doors to your glass house are wide open. Sure the terrorist might use the hijab to disguise himself to kill people as they have done on occasion in Israel, IF there weren’t hundreds of easier and more effective vulnerabilities in French society.
This is done all the time in the name of SECURITY when in reality we need to plug the biggest holes first. As an example in 2001 we stopped people from carrying nail clippers onto planes because I guess someone thought that a trained ninja terrorist with a nail clipper could over power the passengers and use it to clip his way into the cockpit. But not until 2005 did we stop letting people take large bottles of unknown liquids that could be used to make a bomb.
And still to this day we limit people to a 3 oz container, yet allow people to have up to 11 of these 3 ounce containers. I’m sure glad those terrorist aren’t smart enough know you can pour eleven 3 ounce bottles together to make 2 pounds of explosive chemicals. (Yes I know the TSA claims it is so you can’t mix the chemicals in a container large enough to contain the explosion, Yet they will allow you to carry on empty baby bottles, water bottles and even hardened metal camera cases (I have done all 3) all perfectly suitable for mixing and containing your 11 3 oz bottles of explosives.)
Lets be honest, the real reason for this law is anti Islamic feelings. The rest is just BS to try to justify it, and swing those who might oppose religious oppression over to their side by claiming its for “Women’s Liberation or “National Security.”
The reality is, it is to oppress a religion, and this I oppose.
Want to photograph a person without the veil for a Drivers License? Go for it as that is a reasonable security issue that was not instituted for an ulterior purpose.
Want to have airport security to check for explosives, guns, and other nasty stuff? I’m right there in line.
Want to forbid the veil for a nebulous security reason or to give women freedom by removing their freedom? Sorry but I draw the line there and I am saddened that many others do not, because once we support governments interfering with another persons rights for nebulous, unsupportable reasons then we open the door to future governments oppressing our own rights for similar nebulous reasons.
I wish the people would stop making these issues about us vs. them and realize it is about US and our freedoms and every time we flip flop on an issue based upon who the other side is as opposed to the issue it weakens us all.
If you are against secret congressional meetings then oppose them all weather they are Democrats or Republicans or Libertarians.
If you are against religious oppression, then oppose it all weather it is Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Wiccan.
Don't just pick and choose who you want to apply your standards too based upon if they are one of us or one of them.
If you are against religious oppression, then oppose it all weather it is Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Wiccan.
Don't just pick and choose who you want to apply your standards too based upon if they are one of us or one of them.
The thing is though, when was the last time you heard of a Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Wiccan doing things to terrorize other people in the name of their respective god or goddess?
The thing is though, when was the last time you heard of a Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Wiccan doing things to terrorize other people in the name of their respective god or goddess?
My apologies. I did not in anyway mean that they are the oppressors, but the ones being oppressed.
I probably should have phrased it as "If you are against oppression of religions then oppose it weather it is a Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Wiccan being oppressed."
Good or bad? Even though I despise Islam and all, I do not think that they should ban the veil. It doesn't harm anyone. If a woman chooses to be covered, then let her. And what if she is cold? For real? Will they ban scarfs too?
Good for France. It should be banned. Identifying faces has become a priority in this 911 world that their own people (Muslims) started. Females are getting into the jihad game too. And who's to say a Muslim man wouldn't dress up in a burka to get past a check point?
Your religious expression ends when it jams up security issues.
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Software bug for admin?
