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1. You have to describe torture to know what it is.
2. Terrorist are NOT covered under the Geneva Conv rules. ( torture the hell of them I say )
So what are you b****ing about exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90
3. The VP has nothing to do with how the prisoners are handled. I have yet to see one honest left winger go after Joe Biden for the current torturing being done. Just shows that the left wing hypocrisy team is still at it.
Really? Care to rethink that?
He did in the LAST administration. In fact, Cheney was instrumental in determining how they were treated...
4. Obama and BIDEN are allowing torture to happen after both of them condemned it to pieces. ( So it is all Bidens fault then right? According to somes theories this would be the case )
Allowing rendition isn't even CLOSE to what the Bushies outright authorized!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90
Damn Joe Biden is the same as Cheney, only a lot dumber!
I'll give you "dumber"... Also more "compassionate" (you might have to look that one up, I think people like you call it "bleeding heart" ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90
Way to go Joe, torture them baby since you have given the ok from your VP bunker.
I've offered evidence to prove MY assertion, I'll be waiting for yours on Biden authorizing ANYTHING like this.
I even explained why I was saying it was a "gray area" and why I put "gray area" in quotes and you STILL had trouble comprehending it...
Incorrect as usual.
I understand fully why you put it in a "gray area", because you wanted to take the opportunity to continue to bash Bush, for doing it, while excusing the actions going on.. You contradicted your own statement, first its a grey area, but you said clearly it wasnt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler
Apparrently you don't or you'd understand that what the Bush administration did was illegal, while rendition is still legal....
illegal according to what law. I want the law, not some liberal dribble about "grey" areas again. Because you again now claim positively that he broke laws, while now claiming its a grey area. Stop spinning your own response
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler
Yeah, you're right, we shouldn't take a Republican war veteran's opinon on such matters. Obviously you are more qualified to judge this...
A Republican war veteran that is not a legal scholar, but a Congressman. I'm absolutely not a legal expert but neither are you. I do have the ability to read what legal scholars said about the actions and comprehend it. Have you done so much, or are you just listening to dribble? What LAW was broken since you want to claim it was done.. List it.. Can you or will you just repeat the liberal dribble you heard others say who had no more legal experance than yourself.
The NUREMBERG DOCTRINE is the law that applies, and it applies to everyone. It is International Laww and we are signatories. Every day that we do not bring to justice those responsible for the violations or the NUREMBERG DOCTRINE we are as guilty as the ones who did the torture.
Since three Japanese Officers were hanged for waterboarding US aircrews based on the NUREMBERG DOCTRINE, we can assume it is TORTURE
Says who? I know, Obama says so, but its a shame he disagrees with numerous legal experts which claim waterboarding <> torture, especially considering our own military personnel go through it.
Geneva rules forbade not only torture but also, in equally categorical terms, the use of "violence," "cruel treatment" or "humiliating and degrading treatment" against a detainee "at any time and in any place whatsoever." The War Crimes Act of 1996 made any grave breach of those restrictions a U.S. felony -Washington Post-
So just to get it straight, waterboarding doesn't fall under any of these categories in your world?
Also notice the last sentence as for your question on the legality.
Incorrect as usual.
I understand fully why you put it in a "gray area", because you wanted to take the opportunity to continue to bash Bush, for doing it, while excusing the actions going on.. You contradicted your own statement, first its a grey area, but you said clearly it wasnt.
No genius, I put it is quotes because YOUR opinion isn't just that it's a gray area, but that it is apparrently acceptable. If you bother to read (which it's becoming clearer as we go on that you don't) you'd see that to me there's nothing "gray" about it.....
Way to misrepresent my statement though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
illegal according to what law. I want the law, not some liberal dribble about "grey" areas again. Because you again now claim positively that he broke laws, while now claiming its a grey area. Stop spinning your own response
Look above.... 1996, read it and weep!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
A Republican war veteran that is not a legal scholar, but a Congressman. I'm absolutely not a legal expert but neither are you. I do have the ability to read what legal scholars said about the actions and comprehend it. Have you done so much, or are you just listening to dribble? What LAW was broken since you want to claim it was done.. List it.. Can you or will you just repeat the liberal dribble you heard others say who had no more legal experance than yourself.
What do your legal scholars have to say about the War Crimes Act? I'd LOVE to hear it!!
Or is it your claim that simulating drowning over and over again in order to extract information isn't "violent", "cruel", "degrading" or "inhumane"???
Exactly. What some people call "torture" these days is almost hilarious... putting them in cold rooms, playing loud music, not letting them sleep and, yes, even waterboarding.
Geneva rules forbade not only torture but also, in equally categorical terms, the use of "violence," "cruel treatment" or "humiliating and degrading treatment" against a detainee "at any time and in any place whatsoever." The War Crimes Act of 1996 made any grave breach of those restrictions a U.S. felony -Washington Post-
So just to get it straight, waterboarding doesn't fall under any of these categories in your world?
Also notice the last sentence as for your question on the legality.
WRONG, Geneva rules also say clearly who is covered by the Geneva Convention, TERRORISTS are not..
Nice try, but lets try to find another law relevant because that one FAILED..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler
No genius, I put it is quotes because YOUR opinion isn't just that it's a gray area, but that it is apparrently acceptable. If you bother to read (which it's becoming clearer as we go on that you don't) you'd see that to me there's nothing "gray" about it.....
Its only a grey area to those who pretend laws exist that dont. Its not grey, its clearly allowed..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler
Look above.... 1996, read it and weep!!!
See my reply above, no weeping going on here, I'm familiar with the Geneva Convention.. It seems you arent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler
What do your legal scholars have to say about the War Crimes Act? I'd LOVE to hear it!!
War Crimes act involved violating the Geneva Convention, since no violation took place, its not relevant..
no more than war is ok now. funny how the moral outrage is always focused on our own military and police. what happens when there is a gang rape of a young girl or murder of a cop, where does all the moral outrage go then? instead the victim is reproached, sympathy for the perpetrator and we jail the cop.
The NUREMBERG DOCTRINE, it's International Law and the US is a Signatory. We hung Japanese Officers for Waterboarding based on it
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