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I wonder how people would feel if the situation was reversed. Let's say an attractive female walked into the Banana Republic and applied for a sales position. The applicant wore a necklace with a large cross. Banana Republic then told her she couldn't wear the cross if she wanted to work there because they are trying to promote a certain image. If this person sued for religious discrimination, I wonder how many people would oppose her decision.
I've witnessed a lot Muslim American females working in trendy stores on the west coast. They do wear a head scarf but the rest of their outfit is very fashionable. I don't see how it woud violate the store's policy if she wore their clothes despite wearing the scarf. I see them work in Fashion Square mall in Scottsdale, AZ. It's never been a problem. Perhaps, the Tulsa, OK location has much to do with this.
I would feel the same way. If that is their policy, the girl can adapt or work somewhere else. Actually, I think some government jobs don't allow open religious displays like that.
Most of us have to follow some sort of dress code at work. I don't believe religion should give you a pass.
That's a good idea. My mom's old boss (Jewish) did exactly that.
I didn't even know there were Jewish who believed in covering their hair until I saw some movie on television - I forget the name of it but it was a man from a conservative Jewish family who ended up marrying his brother's widow, finding his faith again in the process. She was conservative and wore a plain wig but underneath, she was a babe.
Modesty can also mean you don't make a public display of yourself so I question how much this woman is doing this out of modesty. I think she isn't. Many Iranian women live here and don't make a big display of themselves, they dress modestly but in a way that doesn't bring attention to themselves.
I didn't even know there were Jewish who believed in covering their hair until I saw some movie on television - I forget the name of it but it was a man from a conservative Jewish family who ended up marrying his brother's widow, finding his faith again in the process. She was conservative and wore a plain wig but underneath, she was a babe.
Modesty can also mean you don't make a public display of yourself so I question how much this woman is doing this out of modesty. I think she isn't. Many Iranian women live here and don't make a big display of themselves, they dress modestly but in a way that doesn't bring attention to themselves.
Many orthodox Jews wear wigs and they have great hairstyles and you won't even notice it...I bet you that A&F wouldn't mind it, but Orthodox Jews only have to wear a wig or head or scarf if they go outside their home and after they got married...in the Islam, the young teenagers start wearing them.
I never ever heard of a Orthodox Jew making an issue at their job and not asilitaing to their environment...maybe some crazy extremist Jews but they usually are man and not working but only studying the bible. Their woman have to take care of the many kids so they won't apply for a ob either...
In Europe it were always the muslims causing the issue since they want others to adust to their habits.
This is a tough one for me. I feel the hijab is sexist; a cherry on the cake of a sexist culture. I also feel places like A&F can be sexist as well or at least promoting goofy messages of how people should look. Although, I completely understand that the fashion industry is trying to sell an image. I wouldn't expect a pierced up punk with a green mohawk to be working the register at a grannies bra shop. As others have mentioned, there are certain expectations of attire when working. And what if a woman wanted to wear a burka? I don't think anyone here would support that for A&F, so why is the hijab any different?
The pierced up individual with punk hair isn't dressing that way out of religious purposes. You could argue our culture is sexist as well. Women's attire is purposefully fitted tightly to show off their curves. You can't discriminate against a person because you believe their culture is sexist. A hijab still allows her to wear AF attire which differs from the burka.
I would feel the same way. If that is their policy, the girl can adapt or work somewhere else. Actually, I think some government jobs don't allow open religious displays like that.
Most of us have to follow some sort of dress code at work. I don't believe religion should give you a pass.
I've seen Jewish men wear yarmulkes at work. They wear a suit and tie. They are clean shaven but wear a yarmulke. I wonder if people would feel the same way if a young man applying for a job at Brooks Bros would be discriminated against for wearing the yarmulke at work. The person is following the dress code by wearing the suit. It's up to the company to interpret the addition of the yarmulke as a violation of their dress code. Which govt job would prohibit open religious displays like that? Sikh men wear turbans at work. I think there are double standards that people are unconciously applying to this situation
The pierced up individual with punk hair isn't dressing that way out of religious purposes. You could argue our culture is sexist as well. Women's attire is purposefully fitted tightly to show off their curves. You can't discriminate against a person because you believe their culture is sexist. A hijab still allows her to wear AF attire which differs from the burka.
I disagree. I've owned a few retail shops in my time and one was at a Ren. fair for three years (we did braids, wraps, hair accessories). We were all required to wear period garb. All of my girls dress accordingly. A. It was fair policy. B. We were all trying to create the illusion of the period. I never had to deal with the problems that A&F is facing, but I don't think I should have been forced to hire a girl wearing a hijab with her renaissance dress...or wearing anything I did not approve of. Sure, it could be worn (sort of) but she would have looked stupid. Perhaps,the A&F folk feel the same way about the image they are trying to sell.
I've seen Jewish men wear yarmulkes at work. They wear a suit and tie. They are clean shaven but wear a yarmulke. I wonder if people would feel the same way if a young man applying for a job at Brooks Bros would be discriminated against for wearing the yarmulke at work. The person is following the dress code by wearing the suit. It's up to the company to interpret the addition of the yarmulke as a violation of their dress code. Which govt job would prohibit open religious displays like that? Sikh men wear turbans at work. I think there are double standards that people are unconciously applying to this situation
Some public schools don't allow teachers to wear open religious displays. I was thinking of that and wrote the wrong example.
I know the hijab isn't a big deal in itself. However, I believe the business has the right to set and enforce a dress code. Once you start making exceptions for some people, where does it end?
"The suit seeks back pay for the teen and a permanent injunction against the retailer from participating in what it describes as discriminatory employment practices. It seeks undisclosed monetary and non-monetary losses resulting from "emotional pain, suffering, anxiety, loss of enjoyment of life, humiliation and inconvenience."
This is where it gets out of control. They might have decided not to hire her for any other reason. It sounds like they just told her that they had a dress code, and she had to follow it. Demanding back pay for a job that you never even had is a joke. Maybe they didn't like the idea of a potential hire being demanding.
I agree. Even if this was blatant religious discrimination (which I highly doubt), I don't think it entitles her to back pay for a job she never had, and all those other bogus claims.
"Loss of enjoyment of life"? Because she didn't get a job that pays only slightly higher than minimum wage?????
Inconvenience? Well a heck of a lot of people in this country are unemployed, and I bet they are inconveniced too....
Anxiety? Emotional Pain? Humiliation? Sorry but if someone is this touchy about not getting a job, she does not belong in a job that interacts with the public.
Tort Reform. These discrimination claims seeking all this money are mostly bogus, and even in the rare event they are legit the damages seeked are totally out of control.
Many orthodox Jews wear wigs and they have great hairstyles and you won't even notice it...I bet you that A&F wouldn't mind it, but Orthodox Jews only have to wear a wig or head or scarf if they go outside their home and after they got married...in the Islam, the young teenagers start wearing them.
I never ever heard of a Orthodox Jew making an issue at their job and not asilitaing to their environment...maybe some crazy extremist Jews but they usually are man and not working but only studying the bible. Their woman have to take care of the many kids so they won't apply for a ob either...
In Europe it were always the muslims causing the issue since they want others to adust to their habits.
I've never heard of Orthodox Jews making issues like this, and in fact I only recently learned that they have this kind of tradition of covering their hair when they go out. I never knew about the wigs, but the Orthodox wear them, don't make a scene about it but also keep their hair covered.
Amish are another group that can and has coexisted in the USA without making a big issue of themselves. The Amish women are modest but not in your face about it. I've never heard of Amish women insisting they work in a fashion store in their traditional clothes.
Next thing we'll have to allow a Muslim man to come and beat up his wife or daughter if she forgets to wear the hijab since that too could be seen as "religious rights".
I don't believe for a minute that this woman is wearing the hijab for religious reasons or she would have religious objections to working in a fashionable clothing store in the first place. That makes no sense at all.
The same logic could apply to a Santeria worshipper who was denied a pet from the humane society because he intended to make a sacrifice out of it. There's another lawsuit waiting to happen.
I've never heard of Orthodox Jews making issues like this, and in fact I only recently learned that they have this kind of tradition of covering their hair when they go out. I never knew about the wigs, but the Orthodox wear them, don't make a scene about it but also keep their hair covered.
Amish are another group that can and has coexisted in the USA without making a big issue of themselves. The Amish women are modest but not in your face about it. I've never heard of Amish women insisting they work in a fashion store in their traditional clothes.
Next thing we'll have to allow a Muslim man to come and beat up his wife or daughter if she forgets to wear the hijab since that too could be seen as "religious rights".
I don't believe for a minute that this woman is wearing the hijab for religious reasons or she would have religious objections to working in a fashionable clothing store in the first place. That makes no sense at all.
The same logic could apply to a Santeria worshipper who was denied a pet from the humane society because he intended to make a sacrifice out of it. There's another lawsuit waiting to happen.
Clearly you have preconceived notions of Muslims. I really don't understand how you can equate the "religious rights" of a man beating his wife to a woman wearing a head scarf. I will remind you that unfortunately men beat the their wives everyday in this country. Violence is not exclusive to only certain religions or cultures. I also think you have the wrong idea that all Muslim women who wear scarves are forced to do so. My next door neighbors since elementary school are Muslims. They have three daughters. After the oldest daughter finished college this year, she decided that she wanted to start wearing the scarf. No one in her family forced her. It was a personal decision.
I've also said this before in this thread, but I guess I will have to say it again, in all religions people make personal decisions in how they will practice their faith. This person clearly had no issues with A&F since she applied to work there. To claim that she should have "religious objections" is completely ridiculous. Have you been to A&F? You act as though all the people there walk around nude. I dress pretty conservatively myself, and if I actually wanted to buy their clothes, I could easily find stuff there to cover me up. It's not at all stretch for this female to do the same. And again, just because she covers does not mean that she can't be fashionable.
I also think it's ridiculous that this one situation is being used to say that all Muslims want people to make exceptions for their faith. This is one Muslim women that sued. Most Muslim women in this country don't. Can we please discuss this particular situation instead of generalizing all Muslims?
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