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Well, everybody's doin' it...I'm gonna do it too! Here's a religion thread.
I have been wondering about hell, or the concept of hell. BTW, I don't conform to a mainstream religion but believe in a higher source.
That said...the threat of hell is basically:
1. It's hot, awful, miserable.
2. The devil and demons there torture you forever.
Okay. I've just gotta ask. And I'm not being facetious. Why on earth would the devil want to torture the people there, if they have after all obviously turned to his side (by turning away from Jesus, as it's usually worded)? Wouldn't he want to reward them? Don't you think he'd be having a big party down there, congratulating people?
Also...can it really be that miserable in every single part of hell? If so...why isn't the devil himself in physical torment? Too much so, I mean, to go about torturing all the souls there? Everybody else down there is described as helpless...but not the devil. This would seem to indicate that he does have some sort of powers. He doesn't have enough powers to cool the heat ten degrees or to drink some water? He can affect people on earth. He can even posess them if he so desires. He was able to go off to the desert to follow Jesus and poke mercilessly at him for forty days. But the dude can't get a glass of water???
It just doesn't make sense. I mean this fellow has been in residence there for, what, eight thousand years or somewhere around there? He hasn't found ANY way to clean the place up at all and make it more pleasant? I mean he has to live there too.
One other question. If only people who are saved by Jesus have eternal life, then how can they live in hell for an eternity? I mean when you look at it that way...people in hell DO go on eternally.
Just a few questions that have come to my mind reading the many many religion threads here. Please understand that I am not being facetious. I truly wonder about these things.
The problem with threads is this: You get too many people writing back with their opinions. So I will say this. The Devil and his demons get thrown in the lake of fire with everyone else in the last couple of chapters of Revelation. The Bible says that he is "in torment for ever and ever".
Hell was not created for man -- it was created for Satan. But, since man rebelled, he was put in the same category of Satan -- a sinner. And all sin must be eternally separated from God.
So, Satan is not going to have a good time down there. No one is. It is truly the absence of the presence of God, who happens to maintain all things. And when all maintainence is gone, there can be only ruin and destruction.
The Bible, BTW, never mentions demons torturing people in hell. They're in the same boat at the end of time.
The devil and demons have not been cast into the Lake of Fire as of yet. That will occur after the rapture of the saints and Armageddon. The devil, formerly known as Lucifer was the highest angel. He was the man, the top dog.
Casting demons out of people is completely different than talking about hell. Do you mean you're confused that if they're in the lake of fire, how can the be in people?
And please know that in another thread someone said that the angels that followed Satan from heaven became demons. That is not true. The angels that followed him are locked in a gloomy dungeon of sorts awaiting their judgement. Demons were created by Satan. And yes, he has power. And lots of it. But God is in ultimate control. Satan wanted to be God and tried to overthrow Him. Didn't work and this is where it got him.
And as Spike said, I haven't seen where demons will be torturing people in Hell. And yes, believers will live eternally in heaven with God and then on the New Earth. All who do not accept Christ and go to Hell will exist eternally as well...in torment and pain.
Some say that doesn't seem fair or right. You know, who am I to tell God what He should do and not do? Who am I to tell Him that He's wrong? He has his reasons and I hope we will all understand it one day.
I hope no one reads through this post or thread and thinks Christians are trying to scare you into Heaven. Guarantee you that it won't work! It didn't work on me. I chose to accept Christ because I knew my life needed to change drastically. And I knew that I wanted to be with Him forever in Heaven. Of course almost 20 years later I have learned a lot and definitely don't think the same way I do when I first accepted Jesus into my heart.
Okay, Hoosier_guy, I'm not sure what part of your post to quote so I'll just put some questions out there.
1. So hell isn't the lake of fire, then? You said the devil will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire. Where is he now? And in that case where are all the people? They aren't in the lake of fire either?
2. If they're not in the lake of fire, then who can say what type of place they're in now? A holding pit, I'd imagine? Well, over thousands of years, surely they could manage to make it more livable somehow. My point is that in that case, if people aren't in this lake of fire yet, then they aren't in all that torment yet (I mean the physical torment--the way people always describe it, "unquenchable thirst," "fire", etc.). They'll eventually just be...dead. Right? At the Armageddon?
I feel that the way hell is usually described is: You don't do the Jesus thing, you die, and you get thrown into a huge fire and burn and burn and burn until Armageddon and then you're obliterated so all your pain is gone at that point. But until that point you're burning and burning. But that's wrong? The lake of fire doesn't come until the end?
Jerz, I feel exactly the same way about your questions as Spike and Hoosier do. I was just going to post to you without reading down, but am glad I didn't cause it would've been a repitition of answers.
I do have a question for Hoosier though. You mentioned that the angels (one third of them) that followed Lucifer were being kept in a dungeon and would also be judged. Also that the devil created demons. Could you tell me where you read this or why you feel this way? I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not the same thing that I learned.
Wow, we were posting at the same time. LOL
IMHO the devil and his fallen angels are among us. Not to say that some of us people are demons, but there is a terrible war being raged over souls and it is constant. It's in the air from what I've learned.
IMHO our souls immediately go to either Heaven or Hell so I believe that hell does exist and that's where the condemned are right now.
Disclaimer: Following are my own musings, and present opinions on the idea of hell; please note that I believe in a higher source, or something, but I wouldn't label myself as a Christian, or anything else really. I think God is far too vast for any kind of label or religion. I digress...
I think hell does not exist in a literal sense--an actual place where some souls go to be tortured. I think it is more of a metaphor--if you are bad and do bad things, you will create your own kind of hell. The further away you are from the divine (spiritually, mentally), the worse things are. I also think that we probably continue in that hell until we learn from it and start making better choices. Bad things happen to good people all the time, so I think hell is more of a state of mind, a karmic cycle, a feeling opposed to having something unfortunate happen to you like getting cancer, assaulted, etc. I think we have a choice though, and can be in hell for awhile, a few lifetimes, whenever, but we can also eventually learn, grow, realize what we're doing wrong, and be forgiven/englightened.
Are there any Christians who see hell and some other biblical teachings as metaphors?
This is what I think lately. I am certainly open and believe that my ability to reason and my desire to know and realize the divine will lead me on the right path.
In response to your questions, Hell is not the same thing as the lake of fire. The Bible mentions in the end of Revelation that "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire". Hell is indeed where unbelievers go when they die. Satan and demons are not there now. They are among us, as mentioned in Hebrews. But, when time ends, hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.
So hell is indeed a real place, and, I suppose, one could say, a holding pit until the end of time (mentioned as Armegeddon). But it is not a fun place by any stretch of the imagination.
The Bible says that the lake of fire is "reserved for the devil and his angels". That means they aren't there yet. But they will be, and they will have taken a lot of people with them because they've managed to make it very hard for Christians and Christianity alike.
In response to the suggestion that Hell is a figurative place, I encourage the poster to read Luke chapter 16, verses 19-31. We know this is not a parable or illustration because of the specific names given, and because Christ said "Here's a parable" whenever he WAS telling one. But He didn't say that here, because this is a real event.
And it's not figurative, unfortunately.
The rich man begged for water. That's literal thirst.
He was tormented in the flame. That's literal pain.
He missed his family and friends. That's literal human emotion.
This really happened, and I WISH, oh, I WISH it was all just a figurative thing. Then I could hang up my hat and stop telling people of the Gospel. We'd all be ok. But that's not the way it is. My friends and family have gone there, and they're still in hell today. They'll be there until they are thrown in the lake of fire, and they'll be suffering worse every second while I enjoy sitting at the feet of my Savior.
The torturous hell as we know it is not biblical. There are three hells mentioned in the Bible: 1) the grave 2) one for the 1/3 of angels who left with Lucifer, and 3) Armageddon (end time). So, yes, we all go to hell in the sense that we all die and go to the grave (unless cremated), but no everlasting fire myth. Is used to keep people scared and in line--"obedient", I think, is the euphemism used.
I do have a question for Hoosier though. You mentioned that the angels (one third of them) that followed Lucifer were being kept in a dungeon and would also be judged. Also that the devil created demons. Could you tell me where you read this or why you feel this way? I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not the same thing that I learned.
2 Peter 4 (NIV)
...God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment...
I will get back to you on the other question.
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A question well-asked.
I am very very curious about how all of this comes together in this particular belief system.
