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You are aware, I hope, that Zionism as an organized, modern political movement is first an Austrian Jewish movement (thank you Theodore Herzl)? And that the 'homeland' was the Jews for centuries up until the Romans ethically cleansed the area of Jews in the first century of the common ere? And that very few "homelands" on the planet have been established not at someone else's expense? You are aware of that, aren't you? Or do you only pay attention when Jews do it?
Was not Herzl who founded Zionism - it originated during the anti-Jewish riots in the Ukraine - provinces of the Russian Empire by men such as Leo Pinsker and Moshe Leib Lilienblum.
No, if this thread was about what was done to native Americans, or what the British have done throughout history, or the Boers etc. etc., I would say the same. You take what isn't yours, you cannot expect those whose territory you occupy will not fight back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns
Well, ironically, neither do bedouin Arabs, yet somehow you have established that it is their land. But how can one take land form one who does not own land - or even have a concept of owning a land? This is not a conversation about moral high ground, this is a conversation about reality. Israel's existence is a reality.
First of all, although the Bedouin and native Americans did not have a capitalistic concept of 'ownership' - that does not give someone else the right to come and take the land for their own use and remove those there. Also, most Palestinians are settled people, living in small villages. They were forcibly removed from them by the Zionists.
I wonder, if where you lived was invaded because someone wanted to make it their 'homeland', what your reaction would be. No doubt you would give in gracefully and leave, correct?
So do not expect that those treated in such a way will not fight back the 'reality' of Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns
Well thank you for your visit to illegally occupied Wisconsin. We hope you enjoyed your stay in our illegitimate, brutal, racist entity known as the United States of America.
You are aware, I hope, that Zionism is first a Russian Jewish and then a European Jewish movement? There may have been some Jews living in this area for centuries, but until the rise of Zionism, it was not Russian or European Jews immigrating en masse there and trying to establish a 'homeland' at someone else's expense. But of course, you are aware of that, aren't you?
The US should be, by rights, dealing with what the Israelis are dealing with - resistance to illegal occupation! They had no right to take land from the native Americans, and did so by brute force - there is no moral high ground here. I would much rather there were no bloody pizza shops and Wisconsin went back to its rightful stewards - to the native Americans who had no concept of 'owning' land- only of taking care of it. And, for your information, I have no ties to your country, own no land here, am not a citizen, and will be going back as soon as it is feasible - to continue, peaceably, our fight against illegal occupation.
No you don't. Otherwise, where would you go?
Who's to say that the Irish are rightful owners of Ireland??
Was not Herzl who founded Zionism - it originated during the anti-Jewish riots in the Ukraine - provinces of the Russian Empire by men such as Leo Pinsker and Moshe Leib Lilienblum.
No, if this thread was about what was done to native Americans, or what the British have done throughout history, or the Boers etc. etc., I would say the same. You take what isn't yours, you cannot expect those whose territory you occupy will not fight back.
First of all, although the Bedouin and native Americans did not have a capitalistic concept of 'ownership' - that does not give someone else the right to come and take the land for their own use and remove those there. Also, most Palestinians are settled people, living in small villages. They were forcibly removed from them by the Zionists.
I wonder, if where you lived was invaded because someone wanted to make it their 'homeland', what your reaction would be. No doubt you would give in gracefully and leave, correct?
So do not expect that those treated in such a way will not fight back the 'reality' of Israel.
You said it; I did not.
I appreciate the lesson on Zionism you prob got from Professor Wikipedia, but Herzl is the one who coalesced ZIonism in to a coherent and purposeful political movement.
I'm not bashing the Palis for fighting Israel, I merely pointing out that when you choose to fight you have to be prepared to risk losing that fight.
You can't tell Israelis you are going to destroy them and complain when the Israelis hit you back with everything they got. War is not thumb wrestling.
Don't play the red herring, mate. Look up works by non-Irish authors and you will find the same thing. I mention them because I have personally read them.
I appreciate the lesson on Zionism you prob got from Professor Wikipedia, but Herzl is the one who coalesced ZIonism in to a coherent and purposeful political movement.
I'm not bashing the Palis for fighting Israel, I merely pointing out that when you choose to fight you have to be prepared to risk losing that fight.
You can't tell Israelis you are going to destroy them and complain when the Israelis hit you back with everything they got. War is not thumb wrestling.
No, actually not Wikipedia - I like a wee bit more depth to my reading . I have been interested in Zionism for some time and have read different accounts of its origination. The Russian Jews had quite a lot to do with it.
And all I am saying is that if you take what is not yours, be you Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, atheist etc., you can not whinge when those you have oppressed and stolen from fight back, by using whatever means are available to them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Crowley
That's right Gigi! Since like 1948, we've been feeding that bastard state. The so-called judeo Christians (oxymoron) have told us if we bless Israel, God will bless us. Well, since 1948, we've seen more sickness, higer taxes, more crime, divorce and more of our liberties taken away every day. If it were not for the hard working middle class Americans, Israel would be just another God-forsaken sandbox!
Actually, if it weren't for the Israelis that land would be just another God-Forsaken sandbox. There was nothing there other than ancient construction and what amounts to nomadic goat herders. Since 1948 the landscape has been transformed, agriculture and economy have been established, and a Republic has carved out a toe-hold in the middle east. Booked contributions from the USA last year were $120,000,000. That is less than 1% of the Israeli gross domestic product. What would happen if that was removed? I don't know, what would happen if you took a 0.7% paycut?
Actually, if it weren't for the Israelis that land would be just another God-Forsaken sandbox. There was nothing there other than ancient construction and what amounts to nomadic goat herders. Since 1948 the landscape has been transformed, agriculture and economy have been established, and a Republic has carved out a toe-hold in the middle east. Booked contributions from the USA last year were $120,000,000. That is less than 1% of the Israeli gross domestic product. What would happen if that was removed? I don't know, what would happen if you took a 0.7% paycut?
US aid for Israel $2.46 billion in 2007 The foreign aid bill includes $2.34 billion military aid for Israel and $120 million civilian aid. Civilian aid will end in 2009.
US aid for Israel $2.46 billion in 2007 The foreign aid bill includes $2.34 billion military aid for Israel and $120 million civilian aid. Civilian aid will end in 2009.
This is my point. Why is anyone anti-Jew because they don't believe in militarily supporting a socialist state vis-a-vis taxpayer money, especially when civilian aid (aka aid to principally Jewish citizens) is being cut off, and no one raises a ruckus.
I swear I'm surrounded by stupid people.
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. I have been interested in Zionism for some time and have read different accounts of its origination. The Russian Jews had quite a lot to do with it.
