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Many threads discuss the general causes for gas pricing - supply and demand, price gouging, lack of conservation, etc. Let's have our panel of financial experts (I know you're out there in great numbers) comment on the subject of oil speculators and their effect on gas prices. Please read the following link as a starting point for the discussion.
The Big Lie About Oil Speculation « DAVID’S BOATING TREND ANALYSIS (http://davidpascoeblog.com/2008/05/10/the-big-lie-about-oil-speculation/ - broken link)
upper ron he has a good deal of knowledge, but not quite enough to know how the schemes work, collusive relationships in the industry or the influence some players in finance have over the board. I stand behind my statements of previous threads on this subject.
Upstream market manipulations are going on, and whether or not international governments can get together to take these profiteering speculators out of the equation altogether for worldwide stability is about the only positive resolution I can see. With this part I agree with him- if we attempt to deal with this at the lowest level like congress, their arms aren't long enough to reach that far. The only thing congress has the power to do about all this is encourage renewables and discourage 25mpg gas standards.
He has cobbled together many facts, but is missing a few crucial ones that I find suspicious, and it's caused him to draw a wrongful conclusion. I cannot guess what motivated him to draw that conclusion unless it embarasses his proffession? He's using 2005 data that offers a plausible happy answer for what everyone else on some level has got to know by now is a false premise.
China cut back its demand, we cut our demand by 6% so far, opec increased supplies, and oil is still being manipulated UP. Each time the price goes up, the same people get richer for it being at that elevated price. Why would that be if they're the ones being 'put upon' by an auctioneer or OPEC? Think about it.
Many threads discuss the general causes for gas pricing - supply and demand, price gouging, lack of conservation, etc. Let's have our panel of financial experts (I know you're out there in great numbers) comment on the subject of oil speculators and their effect on gas prices. Please read the following link as a starting point for the discussion.
The Big Lie About Oil Speculation « DAVID’S BOATING TREND ANALYSIS (http://davidpascoeblog.com/2008/05/10/the-big-lie-about-oil-speculation/ - broken link)
It's not that oil is too expensive. Money is too cheap.
Oil is priced right for the existing money supply.
upper ron he has a good deal of knowledge, but not quite enough to know how the schemes work, collusive relationships in the industry or the influence some players in finance have over the board. I stand behind my statements of previous threads on this subject.
I know a fair amount about some aspects of business and finance. However, I know very little about the hedging (or speculating) side of the equation. So let me try to infuse another point on the subject from Jim Cramer, hardly known as a right wing extremist. In keeping with our moderators warning, I will only cite a couple of sentences before posting the link. He says:
To which I say, again, there are two sides to every trade. Lieberman’s theory works under some grand conspiracy that says institutions can corner the market by buying a whole host of commodities and permanently taking them off the market. But there is such a thing as “profit-taking”
Here's the link:
metro (http://ny.metro.us/metro/blog/my_view/entry/Pure_speculation/12629.html - broken link)
It seems to me that buying a futures option on oil is no different than buying a futures option on the hundreds of stocks where you can do the same thing. In the case of gold, where are all of the folks complaining that speculators are driving up the price of gold. Gold is, after all, a commodity and is traded on the futures market just like oil.
I always hear these nebulous claims of schemes and collusive relationships that you talk about. Besides generalities, can you point to anyone specific in the scheme? I can understand basically how the futures market works - someone must buy at a price that someone is willing to sell. What I need your help in understanding is the mechanics - names, places, who knew what when - in the conspiracy.
As far as ViewFromThePeak's comment
It's not that oil is too expensive. Money is too cheap.
Oil is priced right for the existing money supply.
I do not quarrel with his point. I am not saying oil is too expensive, I am just looking at the issue of any ties between specualtion and oil price.
I was hoping on more feedback on the issue of the oil markets and the relationship to pricing of oil. I thought everyone hated the oil futures market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon
I know a fair amount about some aspects of business and finance. However, I know very little about the hedging (or speculating) side of the equation. So let me try to infuse another point on the subject from Jim Cramer, hardly known as a right wing extremist. In keeping with our moderators warning, I will only cite a couple of sentences before posting the link. He says:
To which I say, again, there are two sides to every trade. Lieberman’s theory works under some grand conspiracy that says institutions can corner the market by buying a whole host of commodities and permanently taking them off the market. But there is such a thing as “profit-taking”
Here's the link:
metro (http://ny.metro.us/metro/blog/my_view/entry/Pure_speculation/12629.html - broken link)
It seems to me that buying a futures option on oil is no different than buying a futures option on the hundreds of stocks where you can do the same thing. In the case of gold, where are all of the folks complaining that speculators are driving up the price of gold. Gold is, after all, a commodity and is traded on the futures market just like oil.
I always hear these nebulous claims of schemes and collusive relationships that you talk about. Besides generalities, can you point to anyone specific in the scheme? I can understand basically how the futures market works - someone must buy at a price that someone is willing to sell. What I need your help in understanding is the mechanics - names, places, who knew what when - in the conspiracy.
As far as ViewFromThePeak's comment
It's not that oil is too expensive. Money is too cheap.
Oil is priced right for the existing money supply.
I do not quarrel with his point. I am not saying oil is too expensive, I am just looking at the issue of any ties between specualtion and oil price.
After all, we have gold commodity markets, like I pointed out. We also have milk futures, corn futures, copper futures, and on and on. Is the suggestion that only the oil market is somehow not working? Or is it deeper than that. Are all futures markets corrupt? A lot of people have made a lot of money in gold. That price is based on commodity trading. Is that market corrup?
Many threads discuss the general causes for gas pricing - supply and demand, price gouging, lack of conservation, etc. Let's have our panel of financial experts (I know you're out there in great numbers) comment on the subject of oil speculators and their effect on gas prices. Please read the following link as a starting point for the discussion.
The Big Lie About Oil Speculation « DAVID’S BOATING TREND ANALYSIS (http://davidpascoeblog.com/2008/05/10/the-big-lie-about-oil-speculation/ - broken link)
oil speculators account for only a small percentage of the current upswing in gas prices. for me the biggest part comes from the chinese who are trying to dump their gargantuan dollar reserves. they are just stockpiling oil while they can still get something for the huge amounts of our paper which they have. imo the price could go the $500 a barrel and the chinese would still be buying every last drop of spare oil. if you want to blame someone start with greenspan and bernanke, then the consumer next.
Check out the low margin requirements for a futures/commodities trading account versus that for a stock trading account.
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The real story behind Gas prices and more....
