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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.80%
No 255 50.50%
Unsure 49 9.70%
Voters: 505. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2022, 10:34 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,783 posts, read 17,549,673 times
Reputation: 37650

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Kevin McCarthy will surely replace Pelosi as Speaker. He issued a statement in support of Ukraine.
It would be hard to withdraw support, since Ukraine is showing such progress.
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Old 11-07-2022, 10:39 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,437 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
Nearly $20 billion has been given so far to Ukraine.

We’re giving billions to Ukraine, with a B. Billions.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Release...e-for-ukraine/

These DOD news releases keep tabs on the overall total which is now $18.9 BILLION. And when Senator Rand Paul asked to include some accountability and audit steps, democrats said no. We have little idea where most of this funding ends up. No audit of Afghanistan or Iraq ended well but this lack of accounting will look poorly for democrats.
This number has no meaning in a vacuum.

The US spent $73 billion in military aid to Afghanistan.

Let's compare the ROI on Ukraine vs Afghanistan.

And before you decide to blame Biden for Afghanistan, realize $71 billion was already spent before he even became president.
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Old 11-07-2022, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Danville, VA
7,198 posts, read 6,907,620 times
Reputation: 4855
Shocker.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/p...ions-rcna55986
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Old 11-07-2022, 10:52 AM
 
5,125 posts, read 2,800,506 times
Reputation: 6975
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Last I looked this all passed with overwhelming Bi-Partisan support.
That's right. And the Democrats won't get hurt over this. No matter where the money and weapons go. No responsibility and no accountability. All is well.

Last edited by BusinessManIT; 11-07-2022 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 11-07-2022, 11:47 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,783 posts, read 17,549,673 times
Reputation: 37650
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
Nearly $20 billion has been given so far to Ukraine.

We’re giving billions to Ukraine, with a B. Billions. ...........
The US budget is $6,000 billion.
20 billion won't matter. As was done with Germany, Japan, and South Korea, trading partners will be made with a secure Ukraine. If we get lucky, Ukraine will pay for their own reconstruction. But it won't matter. The money spent to Ukraine fighting Russia will destroy Russia. That's the whole point.


From this year forward there will always be a good reason to have anti-aircraft defenses in Ukraine. If Russia has lost anything close to the 225 fighters Ukraine claims to have shot down, then Russia is out of the air superiority business for good.
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Old 11-07-2022, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA
7,198 posts, read 6,907,620 times
Reputation: 4855
This Twitter thread hits the nail right on the head.

https://twitter.com/TimothyDSnyder/s...PSAToq-nQ&s=19
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Old 11-07-2022, 01:24 PM
 
79,159 posts, read 61,300,923 times
Reputation: 50426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The US budget is $6,000 billion.
20 billion won't matter. As was done with Germany, Japan, and South Korea, trading partners will be made with a secure Ukraine. If we get lucky, Ukraine will pay for their own reconstruction. But it won't matter. The money spent to Ukraine fighting Russia will destroy Russia. That's the whole point.


From this year forward there will always be a good reason to have anti-aircraft defenses in Ukraine. If Russia has lost anything close to the 225 fighters Ukraine claims to have shot down, then Russia is out of the air superiority business for good.
Regardless of who says what about numbers, the Russians inability to assert air domination and use that to crush Ukrainian ground forces is already duly noted.
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Old 11-07-2022, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Austin
2,953 posts, read 1,001,595 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The US budget is $6,000 billion.
20 billion won't matter. As was done with Germany, Japan, and South Korea, trading partners will be made with a secure Ukraine. If we get lucky, Ukraine will pay for their own reconstruction. But it won't matter. The money spent to Ukraine fighting Russia will destroy Russia. That's the whole point.


From this year forward there will always be a good reason to have anti-aircraft defenses in Ukraine. If Russia has lost anything close to the 225 fighters Ukraine claims to have shot down, then Russia is out of the air superiority business for good.
Let's don't look at the raw $$ spent as if that was the net cost of our involvement. Think of the weapons testing experience and combat tactics feedback we've gotten. Weapons and tactics are often pretty theoretical. You project a need for a certain type of system that you think plugs a hole in your war fighting readiness picture but you never really know until you fight with those weapons. We have sure gotten some case studies out of this war. Been lotsa learnin' done. Whatever lessons I can think of now, the actual pros have learned 100x that.

Drones drones drones. Every soldier is a light drone operator. I saw a Ukrainian nerd kid at Bakhmut operating a hobbyist's drone and flying it from his phone using an internet interface with the subscription paid for by his girlfriend. He'd low crawl up to within 100 yds of the front lines, lay in some bushes, launch the little drone and use it to target Russian positions for artillery strikes. Knowledge is power. Drones provide knowledge. Excalibur artillery shells provide the power.

And then there's the whole heavy armor debate. Starting to look like main battle tanks may be obsolete if every infantry squad has an ATGM or ten. Suppress infantry within 2k of your armor? Lots of air power to do that and of course MANPADs make that difficult.

Where are we going now? Precision artillery coupled with drone target spotting? Nullified armor and air power due to cheap intelligent rocket systems? Feels like a high tech WWI stalemate.
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Old 11-07-2022, 01:27 PM
 
8,216 posts, read 3,767,703 times
Reputation: 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The US budget is $6,000 billion.
20 billion won't matter. As was done with Germany, Japan, and South Korea, trading partners will be made with a secure Ukraine. If we get lucky, Ukraine will pay for their own reconstruction. But it won't matter. The money spent to Ukraine fighting Russia will destroy Russia. That's the whole point.


From this year forward there will always be a good reason to have anti-aircraft defenses in Ukraine. If Russia has lost anything close to the 225 fighters Ukraine claims to have shot down, then Russia is out of the air superiority business for good.
Out of which $1.4 trillion is deficit spending (as in money we don't have).
And here is another number for you - $31 trillion. Do you know what that one is?
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Old 11-07-2022, 03:42 PM
 
51,738 posts, read 26,051,983 times
Reputation: 38042
Quote:
Originally Posted by LM117 View Post
This Twitter thread hits the nail right on the head.

https://twitter.com/TimothyDSnyder/s...PSAToq-nQ&s=19


Ukraine serves as a cautionary tale to China should they decide to attack Taiwan.
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