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Probably more than Ukraine I would assume. Either way, most naval ships would be just about obsolete in today's ultra modern warfare with drones and hypersonic missiles flying around... Especially in a war being fought primarily on land. Those old battleships of last century represent little more than easy floating targets. If Ukraine had any, I figure a hypersonic missile or two would be enough to send one to the bottom of the ocean.
Naval ships are much more effective vs non 1st world nations that don't have the most modern weapons to work with.
Really. All that would be true if naval ships had not changed in 80 years and had no way to defend themselves.
We should just ignore the fact that huge numbers of cruise missiles have been fired from ships?
Discount any effectiveness of a blockade of grain?
Never think about the fact that some of the ships sunk and damaged were amphibious landing ships?
Or maybe pretend we don't know that ships act as advance radar outposts for an entrenched army.
Even ships that are not used as radar pickets are used to ferry supplies to troops in such places as Crimea.
And best of all ships are mobile anti aircraft batteries which could protect Russians positioned in Crimea.
I read the last words from the skipper of the damaged ship was, "But I thought the counteroffensive was..a ..failure...."
But, to your point, yeah. The Russians said they didn't really need the ship, anyway. Just built it for fun.
Last edited by Listener2307; 11-05-2023 at 07:54 AM..
Probably more than Ukraine I would assume. Either way, most naval ships would be just about obsolete in today's ultra modern warfare with drones and hypersonic missiles flying around... Especially in a war being fought primarily on land. Those old battleships of last century represent little more than easy floating targets. If Ukraine had any, I figure a hypersonic missile or two would be enough to send one to the bottom of the ocean.
Naval ships are much more effective vs non 1st world nations that don't have the most modern weapons to work with.
The attack against Russian ships is more a nuisance than anything else, despite how the Western media is trying to frame it. If Ukraine has been so successful, why are they still having trouble getting their grain out of the black sea. Why hasn’t Russia returned to the deal? But you are right in regarding difficulty in conducting naval warfare. Gone are the days a country can just park its ships directly off the coast and implement a blockade. Missile tech has advanced to the point where a missile can be launched from thousands of miles inland and take a ship. This is causing countries to rethink their naval strategy. Russia is kind of the test subject. Their ships must operate farther from the coast to get out the range of missiles. A drone (at least the small ones fielded by Ukraine) isn’t going to sink a modern naval vessel. I'm talking actual naval war navy vessels. Not small tugboats or support craft. Sinking a ship is the only way to ensure it doesn't come back. Otherwise, they just make the minor repairs and return it to service.
In the beginning of the war, US offered to help Zelensky out of the Ukraine and he rejected. Just because they offered him the advice, it's not likely he will take it.
I have my doubts on this story. I have nothing to back it up, but it sounds to me a like it was tactic to increase troop morale and get public support. Like the ghost of Kiev story which was later shown to be false. Doesn't look good if your leader is leaving the country while demanding everyone else stay and fight.
Agreed. Ukraine will always border Russia and have ethnic Russians in the east, sending billions to a poor country like Ukraine isn’t going to change that. Let the peace talks begin:
I'm seeing more and more of these articles. I'm also seeing more news in Western sources critical of Zelensky. Sounds as though the stage may be getting set for Zelensky to leave and negotiations to start. Biden doesn't want to have this over his head on the campaign trail. Funding this war is becoming increasingly unpopular. With ME tensions heating up, the U.S. can't become over stretched. A course there are the forces behind the scenes that will try to prolong the conflict. I wonder, if the U.S. will agree to stop support to Ukraine if the Russians agree not to assist Iran against U.S. military action?
I have my doubts on this story. I have nothing to back it up, but it sounds to me a like it was tactic to increase troop morale and get public support. Like the ghost of Kiev story which was later shown to be false. Doesn't look good if your leader is leaving the country while demanding everyone else stay and fight.
Ukrainian forces conducted a successful strike on a Russian shipyard in Kerch, occupied Crimea on November 4, likely damaging a naval vessel. The Ukrainian Amed Forces Center for Strategic Communications (StratCom) stated that Ukrainian forces conducted successful strikes on Russian marine and port infrastructure at the Zalyv Shipyard in Kerch on the evening of November 4. Satellite imagery from November 4 shows that the strike damaged a Project 22800 Karakurt-class Kalibr missile carrier corvette at the shipyard, although the extent of the damage to the ship is currently unclear. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces intercepted 13 of 15 Ukrainian missiles targeting the shipyard and acknowledged that two missiles damaged an unspecified ship.[3] Ukrainian officials stated that Ukrainian cruise missiles damaged the Askold missile carrier, a Karakurt-class corvette that the Russian Black Sea Fleet (BSF) launched in 2021. The Zalyv shipyard reportedly planned to construct 14 warships intended for the BSF between 2016 and 2021, including eight Project 22800 Karakurt-class corvettes. ISW has only confirmed that three Project 228000 Karakurt-class corvettes have launched from the Zalyv shipyard as of 2023, however. The Zalyv shipyard is the largest shipyard in Eastern Europe and is likely the main repair facility for the BSF in Crimea following a successful Ukraine strike on the Russian state-owned ship repair facility Sevmorzavod in Sevastopol on September 13, 2023. The extent of damage to the repair facilities at the Zalyv Shipyard is unclear, although the available satellite imagery suggests that the Ukrainian strike has likely not caused damage that will disrupt its operations in the medium-to-long term, unlike the previous strike on the Sevmorzavod facility. Radio Free Europe/Free Liberty (RFE/RL) has reported that Russian forces have three active shipyards, including the Zalyv facility, in occupied Crimea. ISW assesses that Ukrainian forces have conducted an interdiction campaign against Russian military infrastructure in occupied Crimea, primarily BSF assets, since June 2023 to degrade the Russian military's ability to use Crimea as a staging and rear area for Russian operations in southern Ukraine.
AND, there is no chance Ukraine will ever give up. There will never be a treaty and Russians will be killed as long as they are in Ukraine.
Ukraine is a proxy of the United States. Ukraine will do whatever the United States tells it to do. As long as the United States finds Ukraine useful, we will continue to pour money and weapons into Ukraine. The moment Ukraine ceases to be a strategic asset for the United States, America will cut off funding and support. The Ukrainian elite will do whatever benefits them.
The West has spent the last 100+ years trying to pry Ukraine away from Russia because we want control of Ukraine's land and natural resources. We used Ukrainian nationalism and russophobia as our weapon. The question going forward for Europe and for the United States is what kind of relationship we want to have with Russia.
My personal view is that Europe is committing suicide by fighting with Russia. Furthermore, picking a fight with Russia will only guarantee that American influence will be thrown out of Eurasia because American Empire cannot survive the forces arrayed against it.
China is literally doing nothing and winning because you people wanted to pick a fight with Russia.
With that said, I see increasing evidence of mutinous and insubordinate behavior by the Ukrainians. Both in leadership and among the common soldiers. Americans are also losing interest in the war and Trump wants nothing to do with it.
Put simply, Ukraine is going to lose. It is inevitable. There will be no frozen conflict. The only thing that can save Ukraine at this point is direct intervention by the United States.
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