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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 209 40.04%
No 263 50.38%
Unsure 50 9.58%
Voters: 522. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-08-2023, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,707 posts, read 5,618,222 times
Reputation: 8835

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Macron blocks NATO outpost in Japan amid Chinese complaints

Quote:
Macron has been opposed to an increased NATO focus on China for years.
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:02 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,510 posts, read 9,192,314 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
This has to be embarrassing. Russian economy outperforming Germany (the largest European economy). Bring in the poster that insists the Russian economy and country are collapsing.

https://unherd.com/thepost/russias-e...ming-germanys/

In all serous it will be interesting to study what happened. How has Russia been able to last against some of the toughest sanctions placed upon a country ever. I imagine China and others are closely studying and will be picking Russian economic and foreign policy makers brains.
It is the sanctions that helped drive the oligarchs out of Russia thus the money now stays in Russia and is controlled by Russia. The sanctions have further mobilized their citizens to affirm the narrative that the West is out to get them. Sanctions have made Russia better and couldn’t have been worse for the western world. Completely backfired and Biden looks like a moron.
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:05 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,861 posts, read 17,633,452 times
Reputation: 37814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
This has to be embarrassing. Russian economy outperforming Germany (the largest European economy). Bring in the poster that insists the Russian economy and country are collapsing.

https://unherd.com/thepost/russias-e...ming-germanys/

In all serous it will be interesting to study what happened. How has Russia been able to last against some of the toughest sanctions placed upon a country ever. I imagine China and others are closely studying and will be picking Russian economic and foreign policy makers brains.
What nonsense.
The ruble is down 30% this year against Dollar, Chinese Yuan, Euro and Rupee. LINK



"The ruble doesn't have anywhere to go but down," Konstantin Sonin, a University of Chicago economist, said. LINK


Sorry Germany isn't doing well, but that's not the issue. Sanctions will ultimately destroy the Russian economy.
The Russian economy is not outperforming anyone except maybe Cuba.

Last edited by Listener2307; 07-08-2023 at 10:27 PM..
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:06 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,510 posts, read 9,192,314 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I think he wants to. I don't think he can. I don't think he wanted to send Ukraine those Javelins either, but they Russiagated him into submission(then tried to impeach him). The United States simply cannot afford to lose. We must escalate. Cluster bombs, ATACMS, F16's, Abrams, Bradley's, Patriots, HIMARS, M777 Howitzers... Send it all and more.
This is crazy backwards. You can’t just throw modern weapons systems, designed to compliment each other, and expect success. Ukraines have limited training on these new systems and never have been tested with these systems. Disaster sending in highly technical systems, for Ukraine to use as isolated platforms. One F16 without AWACS and without air superiority will be shot down immediately.
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:09 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,510 posts, read 9,192,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAman View Post
To ALL
Do you have any predictions about when this war will end?
January 2024, right before the Ukrainian elections. With a defeated Ukrainian military, Ukraine will elect a new leader.
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,720 posts, read 9,399,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAman View Post
To ALL
Do you have any predictions about when this war will end?
If neither side completely collapses for some unforeseen reason, which I doubt they will, Ukraine will successfully liberate all occupied territory by 2039. That is at the current rate. If NATO decides to get involved, it will be over in 2 or 3 days, and NATO forces will occupy all of Moscow and St. Petersburg. Which would be followed by a negotiated withdrawal of NATO forces.

Those are the only likely outcomes I can think off.
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:56 PM
bu2
 
24,314 posts, read 15,150,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAman View Post
To ALL
Do you have any predictions about when this war will end?
When Russia gets tired of it.

I don't know if that's 2024 or 5 years from now.
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Old 07-08-2023, 10:58 PM
bu2
 
24,314 posts, read 15,150,265 times
Reputation: 13179
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
This is crazy backwards. You can’t just throw modern weapons systems, designed to compliment each other, and expect success. Ukraines have limited training on these new systems and never have been tested with these systems. Disaster sending in highly technical systems, for Ukraine to use as isolated platforms. One F16 without AWACS and without air superiority will be shot down immediately.
They have been getting extensive training outside of the country before the systems are sent in.
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Old 07-09-2023, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,845 posts, read 8,274,258 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAman View Post
Do you have any predictions about when this war will end?
What does Russia want? What would Russia agree to? What does America want? What would America agree to? What outcome would be acceptable for both sides?

Russia will demand at minimum neutrality, the demilitarization of Ukraine, and most likely Crimea and the four oblasts it annexed last year. There is a 0% chance that Biden would agree to Russian terms. Nor could the Ukrainian government survive such a capitulation.

The United States wants either a frozen conflict(to give us time to arm Ukraine to the hilt), regime-change in Moscow, or a complete route of the Russian Army. The first possibility Russia will never accept. The second is possible but unlikely unless the Russian economy collapses and the Russians are literally starving. The third is the only outcome that is likely, but it requires much greater support by America/NATO(including Polish volunteers).

With that said, Russia can only "not lose" by winning, but the United States could still "win"(geopolitically) even if Ukraine loses.
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Old 07-09-2023, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,845 posts, read 8,274,258 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
This is crazy backwards. You can’t just throw modern weapons systems, designed to compliment each other, and expect success. Ukraines have limited training on these new systems and never have been tested with these systems. Disaster sending in highly technical systems, for Ukraine to use as isolated platforms. One F16 without AWACS and without air superiority will be shot down immediately.
You're missing my point. Which is that American cannot afford to lose. Whatever it takes to win must be done. We keep sending more and more weapons, and more advanced/deadly weapons. Weapons that we originally said we would never send. Ukraine is not going to win with what it has. Either we send more and better equipment, or we lose.

If it takes AWACS, send them, if it takes F-16's, send them. If it takes F-35's, send them. If it takes Apaches, send them. If it takes depleted uranium shells, send them. If it takes training, get it going. If we need to increase the military budget to $1 trillion, or even $2 trillion, do it. If we need a military draft because no one is signing up, do it.

Whatever it takes to win.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-09-2023 at 01:46 AM..
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