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OP: I don't know if most impressive, but very, very impressive. Clinton never won Indiana. Carter didn't. And with what most Hoosiers think of Illinois and Chicago...
OP: I don't know if most impressive, but very, very impressive. Clinton never won Indiana. Carter didn't. And with what most Hoosiers think of Illinois and Chicago...
Clinton and Carter weren't black though.
Whole lot of people came out of the woodwork to vote for Obama based on that fact alone... and did the same for female Hillary in 2016.
In the 13 years since 2008, people have forgotten just how unpopular George Bush was at the end of his Presidency and just how badly the McCain campaign was in the closing months. No R was going to win that year- the economy completely collapsed and the Gulf War was ragingly unpopular. Katrina, Terry Schiavo, and lesser controversies were also hammering the GOP each year of Bush's second term.
Obama was able to win because of overlapping enthusiasm from his base in Chicago, Rs putting in no effort because they were trying to stop the bleeding accross the entire map, and the last vestiges of D strength among working class voters in the state.
If it were simply a matter of AA voter, Obama would have taken GA and SC or the deep south states with 1/4 to 1/3 of the population being black.
I think Trump taking Michigan and Biden flipping Ga are actually bigger shockers. When you end up with a 7 or 8 pt victory like 2008, all kinds of disticts and states are making one time flips.
Think what you want about Obama as a president. I think most reasonable adults will willingly admit that he had a damn impressive campaign and electoral result in 2008 and probably the most impressive on the Dem side since LBJ in ‘64. On the flip side I have to give a nod to Reagan for achieving even more impressive results in his two campaigns (and especially in 1984). As a Republican winning states like Hawaii, New York and Massachusetts is absolutely inconceivable in modern times.
If I had to pick between those two I may lean towards Obama in terms of how impressive his campaign was. He also had a much more formidable opponent in McCain (sorry Mondale) and also had to upset Clinton in the primaries to even get on the ticket.
Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 06-30-2021 at 09:51 AM..
I think Trump taking Michigan and Biden flipping Ga are actually bigger shockers. When you end up with a 7 or 8 pt victory like 2008, all kinds of disticts and states are making one time flips.
I don't think Trump taking Michigan is particularly astounding though his campaign understandably chest-thumped about it. The reality is that he won Michigan in 2016 with fewer votes than Romney received in 2012. And Romney lost Michigan in 2012. It wasn't so much a "flip" as it was pretty poor turnout overall and an opponent (Clinton) who was extremely unlikable to begin with and was under federal investigation at the time.
Obama and Reagan (and more so Reagan in my opinion) are the two that jump out at me as being pretty surprising in how decisively they won in the modern era. Reagan in particular beat an incumbent by landslides in states that were (and mostly still are) very blue like VT, NY, MA, CA, etc. (interestingly, Carter's home state of Georgia, actually went blue) and won the popular vote by about 10 percentage points. It really doesn't get more decisive than that. So for me, Reagan beats Obama in terms of "most impressive wins." Seeing places like Vermont go red definitely impresses me more than a blue Indiana, though it's still impressive.
In the 13 years since 2008, people have forgotten just how unpopular George Bush was at the end of his Presidency and just how badly the McCain campaign was in the closing months. No R was going to win that year- the economy completely collapsed and the Gulf War was ragingly unpopular. Katrina, Terry Schiavo, and lesser controversies were also hammering the GOP each year of Bush's second term.
Obama was able to win because of overlapping enthusiasm from his base in Chicago, Rs putting in no effort because they were trying to stop the bleeding accross the entire map, and the last vestiges of D strength among working class voters in the state.
If it were simply a matter of AA voter, Obama would have taken GA and SC or the deep south states with 1/4 to 1/3 of the population being black.
I think Trump taking Michigan and Biden flipping Ga are actually bigger shockers. When you end up with a 7 or 8 pt victory like 2008, all kinds of disticts and states are making one time flips.
I still think Obama's Indiana win was more impressive than either Trump in Michigan and Biden in Georgia even taking margins into play.
The points you made about the neighboring effect, the strong campaign, Bush's unpopularity are all true, however Indiana is a ruby red state and has been in elections before and after.
Michigan has certainly been a Democratic leaning state, but generally hasn't pup up the margins Indiana has. With Trump doing very well with WWC voters an improvement for the GOP wasn't that surprising. I'm still surprised he won it in 2016, but I wouldn't say it was quite as surprising as Obama winning Indiana in the big picture, even taking into consideration the margins.
Georgia really wasn't that surprising. The state was showing signs of moving more Democratic, but just didn't reach that level yet (similar to signs shown in Colorado and Virginia before they flipped). Combine that with Trump's continued collapse with college educated suburban voters and Biden's win there wasn't surprising let alone more surprising than Indiana in 2008.
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Location: Pine Grove,AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio516
Where, exactly, is Kenya?
Colloquially "african american" is someone who is ADOS, American Descendent Of Slaves, and more specifically does not know who/where their ancestors came from because of slavery.
black is simply skin color/race.
Someone who is not the descendent of slaves, would simply identify as their ethnicity, nationality because they know where they come from.
So President Obama is black, but not African American, he is Kenyan-American
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